quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter So, I'm just reading through (some random section, link doesn't appear to link to start) and you mention how a minor and c major songs sound good together because they contain the same keys. Have you tried this? It doesn't sound harmonic. [edit] I see mention of how little melodic content in tracks means you can ignore lots of things. Well why bother at all?

doesn't sound like something i would say as i rarely post on this site let alone the dj section. I usually come here every few months between projects. I've been here really long this time partly due to some dumb ass in the production forum who is just too funny to leave alone. Like watching a bear eat a bratty kid with freckles over and over and over.

Maybe you could post a link because I am not quite sure what you are talking about. If that was for me.

As for my comment concerning the waste of time, that was clearly a personal opinion regarding how i feel. Of course now with computers as a dj tool, it probably wouldn't be such a hassle. I suppose the djs i hated the most were the ones that neither produced or tried to do anything interesting with their djing and were making up for lost time as a nerdy teenager.

"mixed in keys" in my opinion is one of the reasons why so many mixes sound utterly boring these days. It is only useful if you're handling with masses of tracks like AvB, but no software will ever be able to replace an ear for music.

If keys or melodies clash and you hear it then you don't need such a program. If you don't hear it then you should stop DJing.

Mixing a set is, like any creative process, tightly bound to emotions and if you don't feel the music you'll never be good at mixing it. In such a case HM is at best making your set sound simple instead of awfull. The less you use such "helper" programs, the more you have to use your own head, your own creativity.

DJs are artists, therefor they need to use and rely on their very own abilities. The better trained and developed your skills and taste are, the better your stuff will sound. HM is a convention, a rule. Not knowing it or not caring about it means less restrictions for yourself, which again means more creative freedom.

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DJ Soulstone - Summer Solstice 2012 [Goa/Full-On]

quote:

Originally posted by DJSoulstone "mixed in keys" in my opinion is one of the reasons why so many mixes sound utterly boring these days. It is only useful if you're handling with masses of tracks like AvB, but no software will ever be able to replace an ear for music. If keys or melodies clash and you hear it then you don't need such a program. If you don't hear it then you should stop DJing. Mixing a set is, like any creative process, tightly bound to emotions and if you don't feel the music you'll never be good at mixing it.

it isn't a program. It is a theory. And most theories help you learn alot quicker. Unforunately i don't think the camelot system is one of them but i have more respect for those people that at least try to improve than the hacks that say just feel the music. Those tend to be the people that let the break play every song. Those tend to be the djs that follow a filler track with another filler track a key lower killing the energy even more.

You might not like the system , i'm one of them, but to trash something because it isn't "feeling" the music, is slightly retarded. Although i never used that system, i did write the key of each tune and i did write out how many bars till the bass drop. While retard djs were feeling the music, i could actually make informed decisions on what records to play because i wasn't spending my time trying to feel the music making sure my mixes would'nt fall apart. I also had fucking beautifull hair.

wasn't implying you are one of those djs.


and just a little bit more. Mixing a set being about emotion ? I suppose everything is somehow related to an emotion including eating a cookie but goddamn. You aren't playing the fucking piano trying to emote. A good dj is a dj that has a 6th sense on reading a dance floor and being able to pick songs that provide a soundtrack that keeps people in the building if not the dance floor.

That isn't to say you won't feel emotion but the djs that i think suck are the ones so into their emotion , or was it ego, that have absolutely no idea what direction they are comming from or going. A good dj knows what he / she will be playing at least 4 records before they play it. They understand the strategy in making the dancers feel the emotion. Unlike the douche bags trying to feel the emotion via 3 gel caps and some really gay trance. ( no offense to homosexuals)

Last edited by RichieV on Apr-26-2009 at 14:03

quote:

Originally posted by DJSoulstone but no software will ever be able to replace an ear for music.

who is talking about software? i for one wouldn't touch the shit.

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It's funny. Though you misinterpretated my post, I see from your post that we feel mainly the same way.

I wanted to say: People relying on HM are ending up exactly in letting break follow break and filler follow filler. Just because that theory doesn't provide enough information on a track. There are things much more important than the sequal of keys.

When I say you have to "feel" the music then I mean, you have to understand the structure and love the style. In this way I also mean emotion.
When you say a good DJ knows where he's coming from and going to, I totally agree! That's the result of understanding the structure of the music. And being able to read the crowd should be the highest goal of any DJ. But even if they don't have a crowd to read or simply not the tracks to react, they should give their sets a stroyline.

edit:
When I think of "Mixed in keys" I think of that software that automatically keys all your digital tracks. Sorry for that confusion.

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my bad. Seing the word feel and emotion with regards to djing , well it usually ilicits a mean response. Ballerina's feel and Emotion is an awesome song by that asshole from the beejees Gibb or whatever the hell it is. And that is all i have to say about that.


if you can't krump to this , you probably shouldn't be djing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBgAj4cNee4

if i was alive in the 70s, i would be crying to this song while my nose was about to bleed from all the coke. Why am i crying? because Andy Gibb is obviously talking to me. Actually i think he is probably talking to a girl. I have no fucking idea actually. Either way , Andy Gibb was one of the few white people that made black people understand that we can also be cool. Perhaps even cooler.

Last edited by RichieV on Apr-26-2009 at 14:57

Once again: The priorities are the problem.
If somebody wants to use HM he needs to learn first how to select tracks regarding mood, beat and melody breakdown structure to create a storyline. Only after this HM might make sense as a kind of polish, if you haven't learned it already on the fly.

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DJ Soulstone - Summer Solstice 2012 [Goa/Full-On]

what if you want to build your mood over many songs. Knowing how to manipulate key relationships is the only way to be able to do this in a manner that isn't random or pre made. Djs have a really hard time to understand how to make a set that is coherent. It really isn't that hard. In fact most of the patterns are almost identical to most movies. The ebb and flow of suspense translates extremely well to large scale symphonies, movies, even dj sets. I know it always depends on when you are playing and before who and after who but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand where he needs to end and make some decisions a good 20 minutes before to end up there. But this is really the reason i stopped djing. Very few djs do something that is great and when they do, people don't seem to care. I think things are probably even worse now with the whole producer who can't mix going out on a tour. Granted a producer will usually make a better dj given enough time 100% of the time but some of the people that end up behind a dj booth.

Anyways, i don't understand why using key relationships such a big deal. Especially now with all the digital aides, the time invested in cataloging your tracks is probably so tiny that it wouldn't be the hassle it was for me. I actually have no clue because all this stuff wasn't around but i am willing to bet there are so many things djs just don't take advantage of. I mean how many djs still don't do their own edits. Even just 7 years ago, ago, people had to have 2 versions of the record to maintain a rythm section and you needed 3 turntables to mix something else while you were juggling the other 2 . The only other alternative was to mix very fast but then you could play the beat for 30 seconds because you really didn't want to hear the brea. I think some djs get so caught up in the basics that they have this sort of tunnel vision. Djs have such many more opportunties to do cool stuff that will actually translate to the dance floor but they just focus on stupid shit like beat matching.

Last edited by RichieV on Apr-26-2009 at 15:18

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV Of course i am too old to go to clubs anymore so what does it matter.

How old is too old in your eyes?

By the way some good posts here and some interesting insights.

Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by RichieV what if you want to build your mood over many songs. Knowing how to manipulate key relationships is the only way to be able to do this in a manner that isn't random or pre made. Djs have a really hard time to understand how to make a set that is coherent. It really isn't that hard. In fact most of the patterns are almost identical to most movies. The ebb and flow of suspense translates extremely well to large scale symphonies, movies, even dj sets. I know it always depends on when you are playing and before who and after who but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand where he needs to end and make some decisions a good 20 minutes before to end up there. But this is really the reason i stopped djing. Very few djs do something that is great and when they do, people don't seem to care. I think things are probably even worse now with the whole producer who can't mix going out on a tour. Granted a producer will usually make a better dj given enough time 100% of the time but some of the people that end up behind a dj booth. Anyways, i don't understand why using key relationships such a big deal. Especially now with all the digital aides, the time invested in cataloging your tracks is probably so tiny that it wouldn't be the hassle it was for me. I actually have no clue because all this stuff wasn't around but i am willing to bet there are so many things djs just don't take advantage of. I mean how many djs still don't do their own edits. Even just 7 years ago, ago, people had to have 2 versions of the record to maintain a rythm section and you needed 3 turntables to mix something else while you were juggling the other 2 . The only other alternative was to mix very fast but then you could play the beat for 30 seconds because you really didn't want to hear the brea. I think some djs get so caught up in the basics that they have this sort of tunnel vision. Djs have such many more opportunties to do cool stuff that will actually translate to the dance floor but they just focus on stupid shit like beat matching.

Great post! This is a major reason I now use ableton most of the time.

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quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 How old is too old in your eyes? By the way some good posts here and some interesting insights. Cheers Nem

well dr trance was too old

I quit when i was in my early 20s. It was expensive and I wasn't the nicest person to any of the promoters. Not so much ego wise , I was just disgusted with alot of what i saw and I thaught being good was all that mattered and that is why I was booked. I was unfortunately young and not able to hold my tongue. I am lucky i never really got beat up because I said some stupid shit to stupid people ( that probably had guns) . I suppose i was sort of a dick to alot of the other djs because i thought they were absolute hacks and well , i'm sure you all realize how politics are and everything. I'm sure anyone in calgary will remember RichieV. Of course not a name i have ever attached to anything else. I could be the biggest asshole ever. Of course i thought it was funny and it was always directed at douche bag retards who i thought were complete losers. The type of people that lick mirrors in case the 10 cents of cocaine that might of been on might be wasted. The type of people that make sure everyone in the room knows they are a dj. I'm pretty sure it was only cool prior to 1995. Now it is like those nerds that say they are in a band. Oh a band eh. Sounds awesome.

I stopped went to school and got a a masters degree and work a full time thing in music and although I still check up on some old friends , maybe you know Ben Lueng. One of the first producer student guys i had and he is doing quite well. Even djs for Nukleus. Goes by Rodie Style sometimes . NOt sure if its still big. Well i do miss it but i think the stress was not worth it for me.

I don't think there is an age but i find you will evetually just get annoyed by all the fuckheads at your events. SOme people do it for different reasons. So guys i knew had 50 records and never bought any more so it was no investment and it is an outlet to get laid. Those people have no reason to quit. And I really never wanted to be apart of that. I did notice meeting the people that were still doing the same thing and i did tend to notice many had not grown emotionally in any way. Like their intellectual growth was stunted. NOt that it has to be that way. These people were into drugs and it didn't suprize me.

But i don't think there is a definate age. I think some people enjoy the sense of feeling important and for alot of people, that is enough reason.

But again , dr trance was too old.

I think djing past 25 is probably bad just for the sake of your ears but of course you can just be really really carefull. I don't think most people are. I think djing is so much different now tho. Records were so damn expensive. I used to spend 200$ a week. I suppose the downsize is that there are just alot of peopel djing now because there are virtually no startup costs if you consider peopel don't buy their music.

When i was even younger, i used to play in many bands and i don't think it is anything near as exciting as djing. Even playing in front of 1000 people as a band, there is just something weird about it. The problem with rock shows, is that it is always centered on the band and i think that it is really the main reason people love to just listen to a dj. A night should be about you , not the entertainment. But nothing beats a great band, unforunatly they only last for 1 hour. I think people need bring the rock en roll back to EDM . And i'm not talking about ego.

One thing about stopping djing is that you can finally dance and not care. You dont' have to mingle with all the retard scenesters. You don't have to always be worried about how you look becasue people will always be looking for a reason to hate you. That part is nice because i hate seing bands live even tho i just said nothing beats a great band. I meant like in general.

I wish more djs would stop djing if that isn't their thing. Not everyone can be a great producer. many academics in music theory couldn't write a symphony. I think more djs need to become an act. Not just some guy that does a set. People should only be able to get the experience from you. People should have their own edits so that nobody will ever be you. And with the tools now, it is so much easier.

Before i go , i also wish djs were less competitive in regards to helping people that are good. Mentoring people is never bad for you. If they become bigger, they will always help you out. Remember that Ben guy i mentioned. Well i remmeber how everyone made fun of him and i thought he was a nice kid , a little dorky i suppose, but he is the only person out of that city to make a career. The only person which i think is fantastic because they treated him like shit. Exceopt he had something they couldn't get from flyering - talent.

Last edited by RichieV on Apr-27-2009 at 00:03

quote:

Originally posted by DJSoulstone I wanted to say: People relying on HM are ending up exactly in letting break follow break and filler follow filler. Just because that theory doesn't provide enough information on a track. There are things much more important than the sequal of keys.

So it's not possible to play a set that's 90 or even 100% mixed in key but still features appropriate flow including breaks, builds and "filler"?

If you genuinely think that, then you're kidding yourself.

You're correct; there are many things more important than a sequence of keys. However, if a DJ can achieve good mixing, great set flow, excellent track selection, proper mood and all the other things a good jock does, as well as mixing in harmony a majority of the time, I don't see why you should have a problem with that.

RichieV stop writing essays because no one reads posts that long.

Last edited by Domesticated on Apr-28-2009 at 02:53