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Originally posted by jerZ07002 oh yeah (what the hell is slave wage labor anyway?).

Working for a wage which is below that necessary for subsistence.

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doesn't sound like low wage labor was the point until people began pointing out flaws in your theory.

Theories aren't perfect and mine certainly isn't. Thanks to your criticism though, I was able to adjust it.

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Originally posted by Krypton Attacking the source instead of the message huh?

Do you realize the full implications of this message?

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Ah! That is his misfortune… These men… [have] the most terrible, the most imperious of masters, that is, need. … They must therefore find someone to hire them, or die of hunger. Is that to be free?"

So men have the right not to "need" anything? All of their needs are to be provided by others? Do you realize the amount of compulsion this requires? Unlike the traditional definition of freedom which means the freedom to be left alone, this definition of freedom REQUIRES slavery.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt So men have the right not to "need" anything? All of their needs are to be provided by others? Do you realize the amount of compulsion this requires? Unlike the traditional definition of freedom which means the freedom to be left alone, this definition of freedom REQUIRES slavery.

The point is, need compels one to work very hard for very little. That can't be called freedom. It's also not slavery. But this still lends credence to my original point. Superpowers throughout history have relied on slave/forced/(slave wage) labor to fuel their economies which enable them to be superpowers in the first place.

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Originally posted by Krypton The point is, need compels one to work very hard for very little. That can't be called freedom. It's also not slavery. But this still lends credence to my original point. Superpowers throughout history have relied on slave/forced/(slave wage) labor to fuel their economies which enable them to be superpowers in the first place.

not your original point, your modified point.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 not your original point, your modified point.

What do you mean by 'freedom', though? It seems to me that freedom is a really, really slippery concept, each individual representing a different shade of grey. Is slavery the opposite of freedom, though? Sure, it's a pretty clear example of 'not freedom', but where are you drawing your comparison from?

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by Krypton

FYI - i agree with your modified point.







As an aside, I was riding the subway this morning and I saw some kids wearing this shirt (which I think is fucking hilarious - hopefully the kid stays away from the black israelites on 34th and 6th, i could see a confrontation happening):