quote:

Originally posted by slingshot A 30% recovery in the markets...how does this have anything to do with Harper at all? There has been a 30% recovery in the markets EVERYWHERE.

I'm not sure what you mean here; Canada's financial markets have had more than a 30% recovery, they've had a complete turnaround and are now even better than they were last year.

Fiscal policy tends to take effect after 3-5 years... so while I can't prove that any of this is because of Harper or the Conservatives, the timing is definitely right.

quote:

When China buys, commodity prices go up....when that happens the TSX posts gains because of the dominance of mining and resource companies. But what also happens, is our dollar appreciates. While we think that we're doing well, we're actually fucking over every other industry in the country.

Maybe. You have a point about the mining and resource sector, but I don't think the trickle-down effect is as pronounced as you make it out to be. Canada's tech, financial, and real estate sectors are all doing well and move pretty much independently of the resource sector. Retail sector, maybe somewhat correlated but not totally dependent, that has more to do with unemployment. Manufacturing yes, but in my opinion that industry has become so heavily unionized and hopelessly outmoded that it needs to crash and burn before it can be fixed.

quote:

Harper and the conservatives have failed to address so many key issues that our country faces moving forward.

I agree with you on this... though I have a sinking feeling that my list of "key issues" is going to be wildly different from yours.

quote:

So many people completely fail to notice the significance of everything I have just mentioned moving forward as a nation. It totally fits into the complacent, and lacking foresight stance of our government and general population as a whole.

I've noticed all of these things, but IMO these issues are not necessarily something that the government should or even can fix. To an extent they're actually cyclical, as the economy generally is; the previous Liberal governments had the benefit of presiding over one of the longest bull markets in history, driven primarily by the USA. I'm sure someone will point out that they also had to deal with the dot-com bubble, but by the time the next election rolled around the recovery had already started.

Harper had less than a year before the credit crunch began. When an economic meltdown is being driven primarily by sinking American and international markets coupled with massive government bailouts and protectionist/isolationist policies, does it really make sense to pin the blame on our government for not doing enough to stop it? History has shown time and again that too much government interference in these matters usually makes the problem worse.

quote:

Originally posted by slingshot You want an example of how to put in place policy that's in the long run benefit of the country? See the Statens pensjonsfond.

That's what we need - more state-run businesses.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by slingshot Our unemployement rate is still pushing double digits. ONTARIO, which pretty much is Canada is in the worst shape of them all. Nothing has been done to address this. Federal funding disbursement is not representative of the type of urban nation that we have become. Our largest and most powerful cities (Toronto) consistently suffer from funding short falls because of an insufficient allocation of funds to the areas where they are most well spent.

The reason why Toronto is failing is for two reasons: Provincial downloading social programs and funding to the municipal level and the Ontario government consistantly raising personal and business taxes. Businesses and young employees are finding work in other parts of the country where it is much more affordable to live and conduct business operations.

The Federal government has a duty to serve ALL citizens across the entire country. Unfortunatly because the citizens of rural Canada do not have access to the same resources as we do here in the urban sections, they need support, and that support costs money. There is always the problem of regionalism which has forever plauged this country. By investing heavy amount of federal taxpayer money can and will create further disenchantment between the people of this country.

One other thing to add - Toronto is not suffering from "funding shortfalls", Toronto is suffering from some of the most horrible budget mismanagement in the city's history. Knowing how Toronto spends its money, just taking the recent garbage strike as an example, if I were Harper, I would sure as hell be reluctant to give another dime to Toronto.

It's not just about who (supposedly) needs the money, it's about how well they're going to use it. Both Toronto and Ontario in general need to prove that they aren't completely incompetent.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut That's what we need - more state-run businesses.

So we sell our resources to foreign nations and let them siphon out the money instead? Are you even familiar with Norway's Pension Fund?

lol...dude....you're rolling your eyes at capitalizing on our resource wealth for the benefit of our own people?

___________________
We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.

quote:

Originally posted by slingshot So we sell our resources to foreign nations and let them siphon out the money instead?

How do you figure that they are "siphoning out" the money?

quote:

lol...dude....you're rolling your eyes at capitalizing on our resource wealth for the benefit of our own people?

I'm rolling my eyes at the notion that it's the government's responsibility to do this.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Finally a thread with some intelligent comments. I enjoy seeing other peoples perspectives when it comes to politics. It is a healthy conflict of beleifs for the same desired outcome, the betterment of our nation.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut How do you figure that they are "siphoning out" the money? I'm rolling my eyes at the notion that it's the government's responsibility to do this.

By profiting off our resource wealth and sending it back to a nation other than ours?

How is it not the governments responsibility to put in place policy measures to manage our own resources and wealth in the best way possible for the people of our country?

Do the math on this....what's the FV of say...$3-5bn annually compounded over 20-30 years? Why don't we have some sort of fund set up to manage our oil wealth again? Because we're too busy running deficits again? It makes no sense whatsoever.

{EDIT}: And I'm talking specifically about the oil sands here when I refer to resource wealth.

___________________
We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.

Last edited by slingshot on Sep-03-2009 at 03:29

Cities are strictly provincial jurisdiction.

Case closed, that debate doesn't belong here.

___________________
[/IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/ngycqo.png[/IMG]

Natural Resources are strictly provincial jurisdiction.

Case closed, that debate doesn't belong here.

___________________
[/IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/ngycqo.png[/IMG]

quote:

Originally posted by malek Natural Resources are strictly provincial jurisdiction. Case closed, that debate doesn't belong here.

Not entirely. When it comes to international trade relations, that is federal jurisdiction, so the two commonly intertwine.

quote:

Originally posted by malek Cities are strictly provincial jurisdiction. Case closed, that debate doesn't belong here.

quote:

Originally posted by malek Natural Resources are strictly provincial jurisdiction. Case closed, that debate doesn't belong here.

My points exactly. Read between the lines.

___________________
We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.

quote:

Originally posted by Sentinal Not entirely. When it comes to international trade relations, that is federal jurisdiction, so the two commonly intertwine.

The province is the sole entity that can enact laws on its territory about exploration, development or conservation and management of natural resources. International trade relations legislation is a just an accessory step in the whole process from mine to market.

___________________
[/IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/ngycqo.png[/IMG]