quote:

Originally posted by E2EK1EL B/C it's ghetto ... there's no lockdown, why offer it to ppl who can't even pay their bills? If I ran a carrier, ANY cheap ass pay as you go customer puts their sim in a high end smartphone ... i'll get the system to forward all outgoing calls to a CSR centre and force them to A)Sign a proper VP and DP or B)Refund your remaining balance.

cause it would still be a smart move. there are more and more people who are getting rid of their home phones and strictly using their cell as the main contact #. Some people just don't like contracts...nothing to do with paying their bill, but further to that, what if someone's in a 3yr contract and loses their job or gets seriously ill and can no longer afford to pay their monthly bill? There was that exact situation on the news this evening, and Rogers still told the woman to pay. Fkn BS. if she's not using the service ..she shouldn't have to. Hence why people love pay as u go...if i don't use it..i won't be charged.

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quote:

Originally posted by Stilez cause it would still be a smart move. there are more and more people who are getting rid of their home phones and strictly using their cell as the main contact #. Some people just don't like contracts...nothing to do with paying their bill, but further to that, what if someone's in a 3yr contract and loses their job or gets seriously ill and can no longer afford to pay their monthly bill? There was that exact situation on the news this evening, and Rogers still told the woman to pay. Fkn BS. if she's not using the service ..she shouldn't have to. Hence why people love pay as u go...if i don't use it..i won't be charged.

If you cant afford paying $50 a month, you shouldn't have a high end smartphone ... its basic math. In your theory, what about a mortgage, a lease on a car or raising a child? All those are lifetime contracts you cant run from ... there's no pay as you go option there.


Cellphone contracts are nothing compared to real contract out there. Worse come to worse, downgrade your plans or even pick DECF if you have to ... if you don't like contracts, buy the damn unit @ retail pricing or get it used.

There are many benefits w/ contracts, lockdown of pricing they can not touch and with that new law, your carrier breaching the term you signed for ... you can leave w/o paying ECF and DECF.

Last edited by E2EK1EL on Dec-16-2009 at 02:37

quote:

Originally posted by E2EK1EL If you cant afford paying $50 a month, you shouldn't have a phone ... its basic math. In your theory, what about a mortgage, a lease on a car or raising a child? All those are lifetime contracts you cant run from ... there's no pay as you go option there. Cellphone contracts are nothing compared to real contract out there. Worse come to worse, downgrade your plans or even pick DECF if you have to ... if you don't like contracts, buy the damn unit @ retail pricing or get it used. There are many benefits w/ contracts, lockdown of pricing they can not touch and with that new law, your carrier breaching the term you signed for ... you can leave w/o paying ECF and DECF.

exactly though. your examples are of LIFE purchases or life changing ones. contracts and such related to those are totally warranted and expected, but that shouldn't have to be the case for something as trivial as a cell phone or cell phone plan. In you theory...u're saying a cell phone and it's plan are just as justifiable as a house, car, kid!

In other parts of the world, they get it. But then again they have alot more competition so they have to offer more because there are countless of providers willing to cater to users specific needs.

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quote:

Originally posted by Stilez exactly though. your examples are of LIFE purchases or life changing ones. contracts and such related to those are totally warranted and expected, but that shouldn't have to be the case for something as trivial as a cell phone or cell phone plan. In you theory...u're saying a cell phone and it's plan are just as justifiable as a house, car, kid! In other parts of the world, they get it. But then again they have alot more competition so they have to offer more because there are countless of providers willing to cater to users specific needs.

I'm going with your theory, a contract is a contract ... $5/ month or $2000/ month, it shouldnt matter. Maybe I should contact my mortgage broker and ask him if I can buy a $2 Million house in Markham, but I want to do the pay as you go opition since Sonny told me so? Even with renting your signing a 1 year contract, your gonna ask the landlord for the pay as you go option? I'm not gonna be home this weekend, you can't charge me ... better yet, i shouldnt rent even, who knows?

Having a contract on anything now, there's many good reason for it, business and customers benefit from.

If your reading carefully, $50 nothing compaired to mortgage ... having a contract to lock me in for hardware discount or plan discount is a must. Why should I offer you $199 on a hardware that cost $800 and your gonna bail within the hour? Why would i offer you a plan which i'm not making sh*t from and your still gonna bail?

lol, don't get me wrong dude.
Business wise, it makes sense. From the carrier's perspective. At the end of the day, they'll always do what's in their best interest and what will generate them $$, just as the original post by swamps.

They will suck all the blood out of you for as much as they can, for as long as they can, until they're either forced to change, or decide to ease up a bit.

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quote:

Originally posted by E2EK1EL I'm going with your theory, a contract is a contract ... $5/ month or $2000/ month, it shouldnt matter. Maybe I should contact my mortgage broker and ask him if I can buy a $2 Million house in Markham, but I want to do the pay as you go opition since Sonny told me so? Even with renting your signing a 1 year contract, your gonna ask the landlord for the pay as you go option? I'm not gonna be home this weekend, you can't charge me ... better yet, i shouldnt rent even, who knows?

You ain't makin' any sense buddy. If you buy a house, you buy a house, that's a physical asset, you can't "pay as you go" if you want to actually own it. You can, however, lease it, and not every lease is a year-long lease, some people have month-to-month tenancies. And guess what - those people still get to use the water and electricity, the parking lot, the elevators, and any other common areas, and the landlord still has to maintain the suite in a good state of repair.

Housing is quite possibly the worst analogy to pick in order to make whatever point you're trying to make. I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to be able to use the $500 smart phone I just paid for myself primarily for e-mail/web/text, and not have a voice plan because I hardly ever make actual calls.

quote:

Why should I offer you $199 on a hardware that cost $800 and your gonna bail within the hour? Why would i offer you a plan which i'm not making sh*t from and your still gonna bail?

I don't think anyone said anything about offering discounts on high-end smart phones for pay-as-you-go plans. He just said, let me combine a bare-bones voice plan with a good data plan.

It's funny in a way that some people can't even conceive of the possibility of purchasing a plan without a phone, or vice versa, and not being locked into a long-term wireless contract. The marketing teams for Canadian providers have brainwashed the public very effectively, as if you'd be stupid not to accept a punitive or outright hostile contract just to get the phone a little cheaper. Not everybody plays into that.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut It's funny in a way that some people can't even conceive of the possibility of purchasing a plan without a phone, or vice versa, and not being locked into a long-term wireless contract. The marketing teams for Canadian providers have brainwashed the public very effectively, as if you'd be stupid not to accept a punitive or outright hostile contract just to get the phone a little cheaper. Not everybody plays into that.

golden words!

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And leave this world behind...

I was joking around with Sonny’s theory about Pay As You Go method

What I’m trying to say is, a contract is a contract. Everyone can benefit from it, you’re helping them out and they’re helping you out. Now, it’s up to you if you negotiate on the term and pricing to your benefit and in the long run, they’re still benefiting from this, b/c you’re not supporting the other companies regarding any product, service and etc. Sometimes you take a hit to take out your rivals.

Lots of other countries don’t offer hardware discounts, you gotta buy retail and deal with it. But, there’s no contract on whatever plans ... might be expensive.(Hardware reatil pricing, plans have no discounts or combo'ed pricing)

Since high demand units started to trickle into industry, 95% of all carriers are using our famous gimmicks to lock ppl down.

John, while I agree with you in theory about contracts in general (remember, pure capitalist here), the contracts for wireless providers here are a joke. They do not benefit the customers at all, even after the phone discount.

What's really happening when you get that $800 phone for $200 is that they aren't giving it to you, they're leasing it to you. It's brilliant, because the useful life of a cell phone now is the same as a computer, about 3 years, so after the 3 years they just let you keep it because it's been depreciated all the way down to zero. You pay a standard 25% down payment on the 3-year contract, and if you want a shorter contract then they increase the down payment instead of the interest.

Of course, the lease, and the interest, is completely hidden in their fees. What's outrageous is that they don't offer discounts to regular monthly subscribers who buy their phone outright and therefore aren't costing the provider any capital. Economically it would make perfect sense, but the service they provide is usually so abysmal that they consider it more important to achieve lock-in, otherwise every customer would switch the second a competitor offered a better deal.

It's clever economics disguised with even cleverer marketing. If they disclosed the actual sale price of the phone (which is seriously inflated from the book value, not discounted), potential customers would be horrified and think a lot harder about their purchase. Instead, the companies collude to inflate rates across the board and offer "free" or "cheap" phones, and customers think they're getting a great deal.

In reality, customers who sign contracts to get cheaper phones are merely getting the short end of the stick, whereas customers who don't sign contracts are paying an even higher premium for the freedom of being able to walk away or get a better plan. It's truly a winner-take-all game and the subscribers always lose, and it will continue to remain that way until the market is actually allowed to become competitive.

And although I'm not a fan of Apple, I do at least have to give them some credit for flexing their corporate muscle and forcing the local providers to offer better data plans. If it hadn't been for them, we'd still be paying $25 for 5 megs.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

^ Wow that was very insightful

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut John, while I agree with you in theory about contracts in general (remember, pure capitalist here), the contracts for wireless providers here are a joke. They do not benefit the customers at all, even after the phone discount. What's really happening when you get that $800 phone for $200 is that they aren't giving it to you, they're leasing it to you. It's brilliant, because the useful life of a cell phone now is the same as a computer, about 3 years, so after the 3 years they just let you keep it because it's been depreciated all the way down to zero. You pay a standard 25% down payment on the 3-year contract, and if you want a shorter contract then they increase the down payment instead of the interest. Of course, the lease, and the interest, is completely hidden in their fees. What's outrageous is that they don't offer discounts to regular monthly subscribers who buy their phone outright and therefore aren't costing the provider any capital. Economically it would make perfect sense, but the service they provide is usually so abysmal that they consider it more important to achieve lock-in, otherwise every customer would switch the second a competitor offered a better deal. It's clever economics disguised with even cleverer marketing. If they disclosed the actual sale price of the phone (which is seriously inflated from the book value, not discounted), potential customers would be horrified and think a lot harder about their purchase. Instead, the companies collude to inflate rates across the board and offer "free" or "cheap" phones, and customers think they're getting a great deal. In reality, customers who sign contracts to get cheaper phones are merely getting the short end of the stick, whereas customers who don't sign contracts are paying an even higher premium for the freedom of being able to walk away or get a better plan. It's truly a winner-take-all game and the subscribers always lose, and it will continue to remain that way until the market is actually allowed to become competitive. And although I'm not a fan of Apple, I do at least have to give them some credit for flexing their corporate muscle and forcing the local providers to offer better data plans. If it hadn't been for them, we'd still be paying $25 for 5 megs.

For course dude, we know that. That's why most of the time you cancel you'll have to pay the ECF and DECF = $500.00 make up for that unit you got discounted from. Also you can't do HUP all the time, it used to be 1yr, now it's 2yrs.


SPEAKING OF ... LOL

Moronic Rogers Customer = MRC
ROGERS = R

MRC = Will you match Wind price plans?
R = NO... See More

MRC = I want to cancel my service
R = ECF + DECF $500

MRC = Really?
R = Yes, let me get you started sir

MRC = it's ok, I'll stay on board.



You want no contract, buy it retail like I stated above many times.
No contract = reatil pricing, Wind's BlackBerry can only be sold @ $450.00 + Tax, no hardware discount. They're selling it @ cost, Rogers sell it @ $599.99 - RETAIL

Last edited by E2EK1EL on Dec-16-2009 at 21:11