Ok heard it.

It would be low of me to rip on it, cause I have no frame of reference to judge disney toons by. And I make trance, so I have no idea how it would be possible to compare with what I do.

Heres one simple drum track I did today, then another trance tune I started. Both stop at the break.


This was from my obsession with the drums in Tony Morans remix of "Easy as Life". I know its far off but its me, so w/e. (ignore the swooshes they are obviously coming out at some point)

Tony Moran Attempt

Then this was something I did today,
Todays WIP
Take what you will, regardless of the technical side, I'm sure you can feel the passion. =]

One day my tracks will sound clean, but the energy will still be there. Your music is a completely different style, I can tell you know what you're doing, but I'm not gonna shut up.

Even if you were Hans Zimmerman himself I still wouldn't tolerate the disrespect, and thats all it really is.

___________________
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sure I can do trance too. I think you were still in highschool weightlifting to Alice dj when i made this.

Some trance

any other style you would like to have a go at ? You are pathetic. You call someone out then get schooled completely and you don't have the courtesy to apologize.

Let me shed a little reality on this idea from the perspective of someone who essentially has been doing exactly this for some time now, but for free. I've worked with dozens of female singers/lyricists over the past few years and we often offer up our services whenever we'd see that an obviously talented individual is looking for vocals, including several TA members. The singers I work with are very motivated and eager to get songs recorded, but there's no way I can keep up with them given my work and family obligations, so I help facilitate their collaborations by letting them know when I come across a producer who is looking for a vocalist and I always handle the recording, since that doesn't require much of my time and/or creative energy - I've got the studio and I like working with each of my singer friends, so I'm happy to do that for them.

So, here's where I see the problem from my experience:

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox There is NO AVENUE to get original vocals.

Yes, there is and we're proof of that. There's also craigslist, where it's dead easy to find dozens of flakes....I mean singers....who will be totally unreliable, and possibly one or two reliable ones. Regardless, in our experience, the majority of producers who say that they are looking for a singer are usually (1) complete flakes who never follow through and waste all of our time and/or (2) have no clue as to what it takes to create an original vocal track (e.g., lyrics, melodies, range, etc.) and therefore never follow through on their end. That said, we've had about a half dozen successful collabs with other producers over 4 or 5 years.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Guys will have the opportunity to submit lyrics, and the key they want it sung in,

It doesn't work that way. The key is usually determined by the vocalist because they have a much narrower range and sweet spot than the producer has, which is essentially unlimited. Trying to force the vocalist into a particular range is usually a bad idea. In other words, it's much easier for the producer to change the key of the track than it is for the singer to try to work outside of her preferred range. I don't mean this to sound rude or condescending, but it really demonstrates that you haven't put as much thought into this idea as you need to.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox This is NOT about money. But obviously no vocalist is gonna work for free.

See my comments above. That's not to say that you won't find people willing to pay them, but based on my years of experience, don't expect the phones to be ringing off the hook with producers screaming out their credit card numbers at you. When it comes time for the producers to put their money where their vocalist want ads are, I'm quite positive that the vast majority will balk.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I'm obviously worried about people stealing it, but I think if I always keep enough incentive for them to stick with me, they may not go off on their own.

You can't expect singers not to sing, and that's probably a bad idea anyway - you should want them to be getting as much experience as possible. A much better approach IMO is to just establish a good working relationship with them, work your ass off to show that you can deliver the goods by finishing some tracks, and build your idea off that.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, but I think you have too much of an idealistic attitude toward it, and you're ignoring the fact that most producers who are looking for vocalists are doing so because, well, in my observations, they simply don't have the skills to write vocal songs. Conversely, the guys who have the skills to write good vocal tracks usually have little problem finding vocalists to work with, so you rarely see them looking. I say that not to sound arrogant, but based on our direct experiences. The majority of the time that we offer up our vocalists' services for free, we ultimately get the email equivalent of a blank stare when we start asking them about lyrics, melodies, harmonies, etc. and it's usually not long before we stop getting replies from them. In our case, that amounts to an annoying waste of our time - in your case, that would amount to a failed business venture.

Again, not trying to sound too discouraging, but that's been our experience FWIW.

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quote:

Originally posted by RichieV sure I can do trance too. I think you were still in highschool weightlifting to Alice dj when i made this. Some trance any other style you would like to have a go at ? You are pathetic. You call someone out then get schooled completely and you don't have the courtesy to apologize.

I already heard this track you submitted the same one months ago and people ripped on it.
Great, now I'll submit my youtube.

And for the record you should name that track "headache", brb.

___________________
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wow you are priceless. So first you say you have never heard my music, then I post a track in the genre I do ( classical ) and then you say it isn't fair because you don't know how to do classical so then I oblige you once more and post a trance track I did years ago which is sadly not even comparable to the shit you posted and say you already heard it despite saying you never heard my music.

you never cease to amaze me.

And as far as people ripping on it ? I am pretty sure you were the only one. Your memory is almost bad as your flair for art.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, but I think you have too much of an idealistic attitude toward it, and you're ignoring the fact that most producers who are looking for vocalists are doing so because, well, in my observations, they simply don't have the skills to write vocal songs. Conversely, the guys who have the skills to write good vocal tracks usually have little problem finding vocalists to work with, so you rarely see them looking. I say that not to sound arrogant, but based on our direct experiences. The majority of the time that we offer up our vocalists' services for free, we ultimately get the email equivalent of a blank stare when we start asking them about lyrics, melodies, harmonies, etc. and it's usually not long before we stop getting replies from them. In our case, that amounts to an annoying waste of our time - in your case, that would amount to a failed business venture. Again, not trying to sound too discouraging, but that's been our experience FWIW.

I've never gotten anything less then the most objective responses from you and I agree with everything you say.
Especially the last part with guys who DO have the skills, having no problem finding vocalists.

I most likely am being too idealistic, but I'm trying to NOT focus on the cream of the crop singers and producers.
Who is the majority of people buying stuff EDM related? Its not just top producers, theres a wealth of people who do it for fun, and have no problem spending money for something they want.
So I still see a huge demand for those people.

I'm following your logic, but I don't think you exactly made the goods available to the right crowd. Did you focus just on people you knew, people from here? Did you ever try marketing to newbies and amateurs? Do you think that they won't be the largest % of the customer base?
Thats who I'm targeting, not the best producers out there. When I first started producing, I was a year in and gladly would have paid someone for original vocals, as long as it wasn't $400 like what Kate Lesing is doing.
I don't know where you failed or if you failed, but I just don't know how you gave your girls exposure, or how much marketing you did. Did you just create a website and link people to it? Again, I have no idea. A lot of what you says makes sense, but it also seems a bit limited to your own personal experience.

I'm trying to stay as openminded as possible here, I see all of what you're saying, I just am not exactly sure what your goal or intention really was to begin. You seemed to have 50 different things happening at once, which could have greatly impacted your results. Again, I'm not expecting anything, if it fails it fails, thanks for the eye opener I will def keep everything in mind you said as an objection to overcome. If I can't, you live and learn I guess.

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
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Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV wow you are priceless. So first you say you have never heard my music, then I post a track in the genre I do ( classical ) and then you say it isn't fair because you don't know how to do classical so then I oblige you once more and post a trance track I did years ago which is sadly not even comparable to the shit you posted and say you already heard it despite saying you never heard my music. you never cease to amaze me. And as far as people ripping on it ? I am pretty sure you were the only one. Your memory is almost bad as your flair for art.

No I SAID I never heard your music.
Because incidentally, the day you posted it, it was FORGOTTEN by the following day, so blame yourself for that.

Next, your disney music is deathly boring, and because I noticed I recognized that same track, you seem to post the same one over and over like its the best trance track you ever made.

You have no magic skills that I don't musically, objectively your music does not appeal to me anymore then my own.

heres some shit I submitted a while ago, I've improved a ton since, and I still stick to the statment that regardless of your music, you are still a classic pos. But out of respect to Digi, and outright disrespect to you, how about you leave my thread so we can talk about something constructive?

Or start a remix thread so I can own you on more objective terms.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Nemisis99

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
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Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

No, we don't market. We just work on music together and, when we see an opportunity to possibly collaborate with other producers who are looking for vocalists, we offer to collab for free. They are usually novices/hobbyists, but some are pretty advanced (semi-pros - guys that have been signed, but have day jobs, etc.).

And, to be clear, we have never failed - it's the other producers who fail by not following through. It's usually exactly the people who you say that you are targeting who fail to deliver. The more advanced guys are the only ones that have ever followed through. Eric J is a perfect example - he and his collaborator recently released a track feature Avonlea Montague, one of the singers that I work with, where they wrote the music, I wrote the melody, Avonlea wrote the lyrics and sang it, and we recorded the vox in my studio. Everything went well because everybody (1) did their part and (2) had the experience and knowledge to make it happen.

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by RichieV And as far as people ripping on it ? I am pretty sure you were the only one. Your memory is almost bad as your flair for art.

No I'm not finding the thread.

I vividly recall a wealth of people making comments like "wow, I expected a lot more" or "wasn't really what I thought it would be",
maybe not "ripping" ver batim, but actively demonstrating dislike for it.

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik No, we don't market. We just work on music together and, when we see an opportunity to possibly collaborate with other producers who are looking for vocalists, we offer to collab for free. They are usually novices/hobbyists, but some are pretty advanced (semi-pros - guys that have been signed, but have day jobs, etc.). And, to be clear, we have never failed - it's the other producers who fail by not following through. It's usually exactly the people who you say that you are targeting who fail to deliver. The more advanced guys are the only ones that have ever followed through. Eric J is a perfect example - he and his collaborator recently released a track feature Avonlea Montague, one of the singers that I work with, where they wrote the music, I wrote the melody, Avonlea wrote the lyrics and sang it, and we recorded the vox in my studio. Everything went well because everybody (1) did their part and (2) had the experience and knowledge to make it happen.

Ok I see.
I would be very curious to see what would happen if you started selling their samples on ebay to drive traffic, or formally started a marketing campaign for mass exposure which is what I'm working on now.

I heard your singers numerous times, and I often wonder how many hundreds of budding producers googled for vocals one day, and never found them because even though they exist on a website, they're prob not even indexed in googles search engine. You really thoroughly sound to busy to really get the wheels going, well no, you really just have different goals really.

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox No I'm not finding the thread. I vividly recall a wealth of people making comments like "wow, I expected a lot more" or "wasn't really what I thought it would be", maybe not "ripping" ver batim, but actively demonstrating dislike for it.

nope there were 3 responses

one guy said it was sick
some guy said the mixed was muddy
and you said you could do better which you obviously can't million

the point is that it is a style of music i did years ago and it still is a times better than your shit. As far as the classical stuff being boring ? , i think your Neanderthal brain doesn't have the ability to grasp it. I don't think you would even know where to start.