quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Are you certain - truly certain - that this is because people aren't buying their music? Or, could it possibly be because (a) the market has become saturated, and (b) the scene itself is simply shrinking as the scenesters grow older? The cash flow is naturally going to dwindle when you're suddenly competing against 38,214 "me-too" labels while the customer base has shrunk by 50%.

Yes, I'm certain. The reason as to why is debatable, but it doesn't change the fact that less and less money is being generated by EDM. And that ISN'T debatable. Not only is volume lower, but the mediums in which music used to sell (vinyl, cd) yielded a much larger profit for everybody involved.

Am I the only person who remembers how much $ was paid for the rights to Iio's "Rapture"? For those of you who actually have a brain you know there is no way another EDM track will ever top that. Won't even come close. I could go on all day with examples. Deadmouse has sold a little over 100,000 tunes on Beatport. I can name you 1 CD from 2001 that has sold over 500,000 copies in the United States alone.

Kismet7, you were saying?

The amount of money is probably less in the EDM scene, but also a lot more spread.

___________________


http://soundcloud.com/subtara

I think saturation is definately a factor. It hard to rise to the top when you get buried under the pile of great tunes and mediocre tunes. I think the longer you crank out good tunes, the further you rise up in the pile. I would hope that's the case.

Another thing about EDM, who is actually buying the tracks? I would say it's mostly DJs, and a portion (I bet a good portion) of them download tracks illegally. Why do EDM fans need to buy music? There are endless amounts of free DJ sets on the net. For the most part, no one gets any royalties from DJ sets. Perhaps fans buy compilation CD's, but I wouldn't know.

I think the digital explosion, and the death of vinyl are huge factors for the loss of income. Who can deny that? The digital explosion is also the greatest thing that ever happened to music. I'm convinced that's it's very hard, or impossible, to make a living producing EDM alone. You won't make anything more than a little beer money. You have to DJ if you want to make even a part time living from EDM. Use your productions to promote your DJ gigs. Untill things change, it's a hobby. Keep your day job.

Live acts are where the money is now days, in all genres of music. I'm too reclusive to do a live act or DJ, so I'll just stick to my hobby and hope I get a little beer money now and then I'm hoping that one day my EDM production experience will lead to greater things, media production work, publishing deals.

Don't shit on anyone that wants to make a living from music. It isn't about being "money hungry". It's about wanting to live your dreams. Those who make a living from music can devote all their time to it, and the quality of the music goes way up. Stop paying musicians, see how shitty the music gets.

___________________
soundcloud

Youtube

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Yes, I'm certain. The reason as to why is debatable, but it doesn't change the fact that less and less money is being generated by EDM. And that ISN'T debatable. Not only is volume lower, but the mediums in which music used to sell (vinyl, cd) yielded a much larger profit for everybody involved.

Colour me unconvinced. iTunes sales have been growing exponentially. I couldn't find a similar chart for Beatport, but I have a strong suspicion that it would look at least similar.

It's interesting to see the two extremes of this debate - on the one hand, it must be due to people stealing music. On the other, it must be that only the crap labels don't make enough money. In reality, it's not so black-and-white. Consumer appetites and total sales are higher than ever, but competition is also fiercer than ever and electronic music especially is becoming a lot more diverse (creating deeper genre divides).

There's a lot of demand out there, but you're competing with 50,000 other suppliers; and unfortunately, even if they suck and you don't, they're still going to take away some of your business, because their operating margin is virtually nil. They can hold on forever without closing shop even if they only get a tiny trickle of customers.

These are the people you should be blaming. Not the listeners, not your current and future customers.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

There will always be good music, there will always be good club nights, there will always be good labels, there will always be quality producers around, there will always be something new and fresh, and there will certainly always be big money in it for those who can find it.
Ever heard the term "the cream rises to the top"? Sure, it may not be your perfect type of cream but there's certainly no need for all the doom and gloom that exists in certain sections of the EDM community.
Boo hoo, so you missed the golden ages. Are you going to cry about it or do something about it?
There's plenty of people that are disappointed that they missed the golden age of tourism back in the 70s and 80s but you don't see most of the having a whinge about it.

Life goes on. Those who have a positive outlook on life and a keen eye for business will always get ahead in life and that includes with EDM, whether its producing, DJing, running a label etc.

___________________
Like Progressive and Deep House? Grab my latest mix below
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...s=#.UAv1rbRo3h4

quote:

Originally posted by Kismet7 The biggest problem EDM faces is Digital Distributors/Retailers stealing sales (aided by soulless shills ; )...from artists and labels...this is the single biggest problem.

Good point. How do labels know if Beatport(for example) is telling them the truth about how many times a certain song was purchased? If Beatport sends a check to a label for 50 tracks allegedly purchased how do we know it wasn't really 500? Is there any way for labels to audit these Digital Distributors/Retailers?

For all we know producing EDM could be WAAAY more lucrative than we think...

This shall henceforth be known as the thread of teh long post. Carry on.

PS
tl;dr.

___________________
New Mix: March 2010 Promo
Soundcloud|Facebook

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips This shall henceforth be known as the thread of teh long post. Carry on. PS tl;dr.

And you henceforth shall be known as teh person who smokes too much crack. Carry on.

ps.
wxyz

___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Again, where's your evidence for this claim? Your assumption seems to be predicated on some sort of loyalty concept, but DJs and listeners in this scene are fleeting. If I'm standing in front of a supermarket shelf looking for, I don't know, breakfast cereal, and I've never bought any before, or maybe I've only ever bought one or two different kinds before, how do I choose one of the 300 boxes sitting in front of me? The answer is: Randomly. Simply saying these things that you say does not make them true. In virtually every market, a surfeit of supply hurts average profitability, irrespective of differences in quality or even cost (although the smaller the difference, the more the effect is magnified, obviously). Consumers have a limited spending pool, and when you bombard them with choices, it will eventually erode revenue for the big guys. It's the reason why big suppliers always like to negotiate long-term, high-volume, exclusive or semi-exclusive contracts with distributors and retailers; they don't want their products to be on the shelf with 50 other versions of the same thing. The economics of big business are broken with digital distribution because anybody can get their wares onto the shelf.

This does not answer the question, nor does it explain why 'saturation' in EDM industry affects digital sales to the amount you think it does. So give that another shot on explaining how 'saturation' would affect the sales of good product and limit the interest of the listener with good taste from buying that good product from the labels that put out good product, amongst the sea of those that dont.

And basically you're saying people who typically buy EDM music online, buy it randomly. Music is not a random choice, its a conscious choice. And is that your best case for saturation? People buy music randomly, and because of many choices, saturation takes its toll? lol

And nope no no...people are fleeting from other genres towards EDM, step outside.

___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

You guys are mostly off base here. Kismet is right in that more people are buying edm. What Palm said is also 100% correct. That money has been diluted between probably 5-10k artists where as before it was closer to 500-1k. Obviously this dilutes everyones market share; especially when they play and sell the same shit or worse that everyone else is.

This is where Storytellers comment comes in. With the above mentioned climate most everybody is going after it the wrong way. Less songs more impact per song is the only way to succeed. Each artist will continue to get less and less listens and so those become more and more important.

Basically people need to start WRITING MUSIC again instead of engineering tracks. Bring something unique. Have some business sense. Know your rights. Me personally because I make enough money from my regular job I am keeping all of my content to myself. It's not worth it to sell it at present. Keeping them to myself will lose me some money right up front because I could be making very solid money releasing tracks right now. But when I bust 30 out at once all of the same high quality product; I will be garnering many life long listeners/buyers.


My label is in final development right now. It also will be doing things differently. I'll give a little heads up, we will be paying frequent advances and pay structures will be decided based on the quality of the track/release package. Artist will be getting min of 60%. Thus I will only be taking top flight product and artists. Keeping the label full of a small elite stable/catalogue. Release medium will make pirating improbable if not impossible.

Its all about making sacrifices and having a solid business plan. In any facet of the industry.

People need to realize for those 8 dollars a month they're making they are losing all of their control; rights, and things that put them ahead of others. The top is really nowhere near as hard to reach as people give it credit for being

Online music sales are growing. No doubt about it. It seems though as I'm the only one that actually thinks the labels that sell little are responsible for it themselves. Low quality releases, lack of originality, lack of promotion and/or label profiling and most of all lack of effort/investment (time and moneywise).

Lack of knowledge basically.

Seperate yourself from the bunch. Build your own identity, be more than just a label with a name that puts out music. For some it's enough to put out great music (unreleased digital would be a good example for instance), but for most it isn't.

___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

basicly, it seems people dont know shit around here. one has the wilder statement than the other. whining, complaining, argueing, without doing anything about it, that shit belongs to facebook (why i fucking canceled my facebook, worst thing i see is people complaining about their little shit problems). whats the fucking problem? if u dont earn enough on music its because u probably suck at what u do (producing+promotion) and you should do something else. i dont earn shit, but i dont complain, its my own fault not making better stuff and not promoting myself, not fucking piracy or digital era or anything. you people suck, just fucking make music and promote it, let the rest handle itself. oh and dont sign dogdy contracts lol.

edit: i forgot to say that some people really dont care about the money, its about just making music because its fun (and therapeutic ). if ur into it for the money then fuck off. basicly.