Here's my opinion(FWIW):

The last thing you want to do to make your percussion present is to use the level fader to turn it up. The first and most obvious point is that you don't want percussion with similar frequency makeups to play at the same time. You don't want a close hihat to play at the same time as an open hihat because it'll be hard to differentiate the two. So the first part is sequencing. Next, pick a hihat that pokes out in the high frequencies range, 10k-20k. At this point you should be able to have your hihats at a lower level and still hear them. If you can't, it's time to start lowering the high frequencies of all of the other tracks. Use a shelf or low pass filter to gently roll of the high frequencies content of your leads, kicks, claps, snare, pads. If you try and turn up the fader instead of turning everything else down, you will make the mix sound more lop sided in the high frequencies.

A lot of people will be using samples that are chopped up and very short, so they don't have that natural ambient tail. It presents a problem because when you have the percussion on it's own, it doesn't sound very natural. This isn't really a problem during the verses and chorus where you have a lot of mid and high-mid frequencies content playing. The hihats will actually "melt" into the rest of the song, but if it's during an intro and all there is is percussion, that it sounds a bit funny.

So when you have an intro that has only percussion, you need something to fill in the gaps to make it sound natural. If you look at a track like Apache, it has drum ambiance that fills in the gaps. Vengenance loops have a shit load of noise/reverb and that's part of what makes them sound good.

You can do two things at once. If you have some kind of long ambient texture, that'll do the trick. Drum loops also do this because they will "lend" their reverb to the rest of your one hit percussion. Any low level sound or noise can do the trick. You can also pick percussion that has reverb on it or has long tails so that they will slide into the next hit.

The main idea is that you don't want apparent gaps in the percussion.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

Last edited by Beatflux on Jun-14-2010 at 08:20

Well generally vengeance loops are renowned for not actually having any tails at all so that makes me wonder what vengeance samples you're talking about.

And I would have thought that the first thing you would want to do would be to use the fader to adjust the levels. But thats just me.

Also, the 10-20k range is barely audible in most sounds, its pretty much the "air" range and not much good for anything but enhancing breathe and reverb Its certainly not good for getting sounds to stick out in a mix, so what are you talking about when you suggest boosting that?

Agree with not wanting gaps in the percussion, and the need to make sure you have enough tail, noise or reverb in the mix. Just think you don't really sound like you know what you're talking about.

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quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Well generally vengeance loops are renowned for not actually having any tails at all so that makes me wonder what vengeance samples you're talking about.

Not really. The loops are noisy and compressed.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips And I would have thought that the first thing you would want to do would be to use the fader to adjust the levels. But thats just me. Also, the 10-20k range is barely audible in most sounds, its pretty much the "air" range and not much good for anything but enhancing breathe and reverb Its certainly not good for getting sounds to stick out in a mix, so what are you talking about when you suggest boosting that? Agree with not wanting gaps in the percussion, and the need to make sure you have enough tail, noise or reverb in the mix. Just think you don't really sound like you know what you're talking about.

The first thing to do is to pick the right sounds.

I never said to boost anything, and I don't intend on saying it.

The post should of have read "hihat" instead of "stuff." Most closed hats poke out in the 10k-20k range and then slope down to the mid range where they fade away into the mid low range. Obviously you don't want your kickdrums, snares, rimshot, yadayadayada to all be present in the high range.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

One thing i dont understand about modern dance music is the weird presence of the percs, they are un-separated,filled with noise and almost disgusting sounding when you concentrate only on them and yet they sound 'professional'\the right way.

When i make percs and everything is clear it sounds amaturish, it doesnt have enough noise(?) to sound professional...weird.

quote:

Originally posted by Viber One thing i dont understand about modern dance music is the weird presence of the percs, they are un-separated,filled with noise and almost disgusting sounding when you concentrate only on them and yet they sound 'professional'\the right way. When i make percs and everything is clear it sounds amaturish, it doesnt have enough noise(?) to sound professional...weird.

Theres seems to be this tendancy (particularly in trance) that there shouldnt be any gaps in the percs, fill it up with noise or something....i dont agree with that, sometimes it okay to have space, the groove is in the spaces

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quote:

Originally posted by evo8 Theres seems to be this tendancy (particularly in trance) that there shouldnt be any gaps in the percs, fill it up with noise or something....i dont agree with that, sometimes it okay to have space, the groove is in the spaces

+1

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quote:

Originally posted by meriter Your primary focus should be making good music. That's all. No one gives a shit how you do it. And the people that do are fags.

I don't know what everyone else is on, but in percussion heavy tracks ive always wanted my sounds to sound similar to eachother. When they are too different it sounds funny. Lol. I'll post an example of what I mean when I find it.

Example: http://tindeck.com/listen/mztk

The percs sound pretty much identical, but with enough difference to know you are not hearing a monotonous blip.

Another Example [this clip is crazy!]: http://tindeck.com/listen/phkg

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didnt have time to read through the thread, and it may have already been said, but for using your open hi-hats and closed hi-hats use the same sample (open hi hat sample) - This helps with tonality, it's very simple to turn a open hat into a closed one. Use an envelope and turn your attack and release to 0. Then play with the sustain and decay till you hear what you like. There are always Transient Designers too.

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