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Originally posted by mattW ...lol, better?

I can't see the image

I tried to copy/paste the link into another tab and no luck either

___________________
I am the opiate of the masses.

My mixes:
****Favorite Trance Songs of Early 2012 Mix(July 2012)****
****Love & Loneliness Vocal Trance Classics Mix (July 2012)****

Clubs make most of their money on alcohol sales. You're generally suppose to drink and socialize at a club/bar. You don't have to obviously, but that is a club's purpose. Drinking, dancing, socializing, etc. The music is their to complement that other stuff. There is also very limited capacity in clubs, so the clubs want most of their patrons in there buying alcohol. Having a bunch of people who can't buy alcohol in there, while potentially forcing people who can buy it to stay in line outside is bad for business.

Events like Ultra, TAO, etc. are meant for the music, dancing and socializing. At events like these, the alcohol (and drugs) are meant to complement the other stuff.

I said the reason <17 year olds shouldn't be at places like this, is because they can't go out past midnight. They can't make legal decisions for themselves. They can't make medical decisions. They're children. Is there an actual difference between a 16y/o and 19y/o in terms of maturity and responsibility, probably not. Maybe in some instances? But that 19 year old can consent to sex, he can smoke cigarettes, he can actually tell a doctor what to do to himself. He can leave the event at 5am without breaking curfew.

All events should be 18+. If they want to make them 21+, I don't care. It doesn't affect me. No reason little high school kids should be there though.

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Originally posted by Apeattack I can't see the image I tried to copy/paste the link into another tab and no luck either

Better. A truer poster has never been created.

___________________
I am the opiate of the masses.

My mixes:
****Favorite Trance Songs of Early 2012 Mix(July 2012)****
****Love & Loneliness Vocal Trance Classics Mix (July 2012)****

There probably isn't much more that can be said on this subject that already hasn't been said.

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Originally posted by trancension Clubs make most of their money on alcohol sales. You're generally suppose to drink and socialize at a club/bar. You don't have to obviously, but that is a club's purpose. Drinking, dancing, socializing, etc. The music is their to complement that other stuff. There is also very limited capacity in clubs, so the clubs want most of their patrons in there buying alcohol. Having a bunch of people who can't buy alcohol in there, while potentially forcing people who can buy it to stay in line outside is bad for business. Events like Ultra, TAO, etc. are meant for the music, dancing and socializing. At events like these, the alcohol (and drugs) are meant to complement the other stuff.

I see clubs and raves as being very similar. Maybe your experiences with clubs and raves are significantly different than mine.

In my experience, most people go to both places for (1) the music and dancing, (2) the alcohol/drugs, (3) to socialize. These reasons all compliment each other. Alcohol/drugs make people who like music and dancing more social.

I do not know the business behind clubs and raves very well, so I will take your word that a higher percentage of a club's revenue is from alcohol sales compared to raves. But people go to both these types of events for very similar reasons regardless of the business model.

___________________
I am the opiate of the masses.

My mixes:
****Favorite Trance Songs of Early 2012 Mix(July 2012)****
****Love & Loneliness Vocal Trance Classics Mix (July 2012)****

I was wondering if anyone else observed this, the use of extacy has gone down quite a bit from the time when Trance music was the Kingpin of clubs. Clearly, the amount of glowsticks and lightshows I see at clubs has severly gone down, even the other paraphenelia involved like those minty nose things, folks hugging their water bottles etc has diminished. And from an observation standpoint, the amount of people who seem to be rolling seems to have gone down, less puddles circles, and massage parlors, especially as the patron is higher in age. Sure at massives were its mostly kids, I imagine people are still in the "discovering" extacy phase, so there might be higher use at massives per capita than at clubs.

If what i'm seeing is fairly accurate...I think there was an extacy phase to edm music and clubs, and that has been superceded by alcohol and more genuine interests have come forefront: the music and socializing. Aided by club demographics widening furthur into the mainstream, as event marketing through the internet reaches more people and electronic music in general interests a larger pool of people. Resulting in the underground nature that supported drug use like extacy has been pushed into the dark a bit, and those people come out less, giving more room for drinkers, socalisers and casuals.

I think clubs and the culture involved is in a favorable state and headed in a good direction overall. And this not me being a pretentious optimist, its based on observation and reasoning, otherwise its easy to be cynical.

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Ecstasy use was on the decline from the late 90's until recently, but it is picking back up. The anti-ecstasy campaign hasn't exactly been in effect for today's generation of ravers, and so they are raving on E again. Government has been putting a lot of effort into campaigning against Meth/Heroin, and so ecstasy has gotten less attention. Add in the fact that since its production has honestly gotten more stable and controlled and subsequently safer, today's 18-30 year olds just don't fear using ecstasy like they did 5-15 years ago.

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Ecstasy use in Los Angeles County was on the upswing between 2005 and 2009. According to the CDC, one drug-reporting system said that of L.A. County residents entering a drug-treatment program, the number who listed Ecstasy as their drug of choice jumped from 0.22 to 1.65 for every 100,000 residents, a 650% increase. The CDC report said a recent national survey of teenagers showed a rise in Ecstasy use in 2009 compared with 2008 and a decrease in the perception of risk from the drug. In line with the increase of the use of Ecstasy in Los Angeles County, the CDC report called the use of the drug a “possible ongoing and underreported public health problem.”

This is very accurate, except for it being a public health problem. Ecstasy is a very safe drug if the person is in good health and can trust the source they got it from. Other underlying health concerns and mixing (alcohol, other drugs) are usually what results in bad ecstasy experiences. Dehydration or over hydration are also concerns still of course.

Ecstasy use will most likely see a rise in use for quite some time as long as the perception of it being a relatively harmless drug. The candy heads are in full swing lately, surprised anyone would think E use has declined the last few years. It has definitely picked back up.

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Originally posted by Apeattack There probably isn't much more that can be said on this subject that already hasn't been said. I see clubs and raves as being very similar. Maybe your experiences with clubs and raves are significantly different than mine. In my experience, most people go to both places for (1) the music and dancing, (2) the alcohol/drugs, (3) to socialize. These reasons all compliment each other. Alcohol/drugs make people who like music and dancing more social. I do not know the business behind clubs and raves very well, so I will take your word that a higher percentage of a club's revenue is from alcohol sales compared to raves. But people go to both these types of events for very similar reasons regardless of the business model.

I'm not talking about raves. I'm talking about "events" -- TAO and Trance Energy and Ultra and similar events are not raves. EDM + venue != rave. This is just my opinion, I might be in the minority in this thinking. A rave is an underground party, that doesn't have 20 police officers and 10 ambulances on stand by. Raves are fueled by drug use. Events like TAO/Ultra/TE/etc. have security who might do drug searches from time to time. Raves do not. Raves in my experience do not have full stocked bars either. Raves don't care how old the attendees are for the most part.

I definitely feel most people go to events like TAO/Ultra/etc. for the music and socializing. People would go to them even if there was a guarantee they could not do drugs or alcohol (including pre-gaming).

Clubs on the other hand? I don't think so. Unless it's a special DJ, a club is only going to attract people because they can drink there.

Raves...in my experience people don't drink at raves. At least 4/5 people are on some form of drug, the other 1/5 actually love the experience for what it is and/or are the "babysitters" for their friends rolling balls.

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Originally posted by trancension Ecstasy use was on the decline from the late 90's until recently, but it is picking back up. The anti-ecstasy campaign hasn't exactly been in effect for today's generation of ravers, and so they are raving on E again. Government has been putting a lot of effort into campaigning against Meth/Heroin, and so ecstasy has gotten less attention. Add in the fact that since its production has honestly gotten more stable and controlled and subsequently safer, today's 18-30 year olds just don't fear using ecstasy like they did 5-15 years ago. This is very accurate, except for it being a public health problem. Ecstasy is a very safe drug if the person is in good health and can trust the source they got it from. Other underlying health concerns and mixing (alcohol, other drugs) are usually what results in bad ecstasy experiences. Dehydration or over hydration are also concerns still of course. Ecstasy use will most likely see a rise in use for quite some time as long as the perception of it being a relatively harmless drug. The candy heads are in full swing lately, surprised anyone would think E use has declined the last few years. It has definitely picked back up.

Thanks for finding and sharing that quote, tbh i'm not a fan of these reports, there is usually politics and pandering involved, they are hard to trust. I was interested in observance at clubs. Does the report illustrate the amount of use at clubs? Maybe there has been growth in certain demographics due to the accessibility that the younger generation has in the various avenues they can come in contact or use xtc. I'm not sure you can say that about clubs with an older/experienced demographic.

The reason being that xtc concentrates on the users emotions,and the user typically has a connection to a certain time or place while using. XTC is a social atmosphere dependent drug, compared to the drugs people can do at home. So if the social aspects take a hit or change, a bad experience in an uncontrolled environment, or changes in the social environment (i.e. breaking off a relationship with another user), it would make sense that users quit use, or move on to something else due to the experiences, changes in environment/atmosphere. Also XTC has a steady rise in tolerence from the user, so over time it makes less sense for them to keep using something they have built a tolerance to, in which the earlier experiences cannot be replicated. So you have this phase based use by the average user (with exceptions of course), instead of a sustainable prolonged use that other drugs allow users.

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commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

there was an la times guy last night at avalon..taking photos and videos too....

___________________
"living life one party at a time..."

quote:

Originally posted by trancension I'm not talking about raves. I'm talking about "events" -- TAO and Trance Energy and Ultra and similar events are not raves. EDM + venue != rave. This is just my opinion, I might be in the minority in this thinking. A rave is an underground party, that doesn't have 20 police officers and 10 ambulances on stand by. Raves are fueled by drug use. Events like TAO/Ultra/TE/etc. have security who might do drug searches from time to time. Raves do not. Raves in my experience do not have full stocked bars either. Raves don't care how old the attendees are for the most part. ... Raves...in my experience people don't drink at raves. At least 4/5 people are on some form of drug, the other 1/5 actually love the experience for what it is and/or are the "babysitters" for their friends rolling balls.

Among my friends we use the words 'massives' and 'raves' interchangeably. Perhaps this is a sign that 'raves' have gone from underground events to big events that are in a 'controlled' environment.

All my comments above are regarding 'massives' (or 'events' as you call them).

___________________
I am the opiate of the masses.

My mixes:
****Favorite Trance Songs of Early 2012 Mix(July 2012)****
****Love & Loneliness Vocal Trance Classics Mix (July 2012)****

quote:

Originally posted by KarenLuvs2Party there was an la times guy last night at avalon..taking photos and videos too....

I noticed that too...they have been recently "working" with the Avalon. Well, them and some other select clubs in the area.