quote:

Originally posted by skip I don't really know what exactly determines what key a track is in, but I would think that it's pretty easily defined.

Unfortunately, this can be the hardest part. Even if you know all of the notes in a song, it can be hard to define the key and in fact a lot of tracks could be equally validly labelled with a number of keys.

The key is essentially the scale or chord around which the piece is centred. The choice of 'centre' could vary from one person to another, but for fairly formulaic music most people would identify it as the first or last chord of a phrase. But a lot of dance music (techno especially) isn't really arrange in chords in the same way that classical music is, so the key starts to become fairly ambiguous.

Percussion and sound effects add a ton of frequencies to the spectrum which makes it harder for software to pick out the notes involved in the first place, least of all decide on a key when it may be that no definitive key exists.


I think there are generally 2 reasons DJs mark keys for harmonic mixing: to avoid harmonic clashes when layering and to help us to modulate (move between keys) nicely. To be honest, if the key of a record is ambiguous, layering it according to what seems to be the most suitable key may well result in a clash anyway... and trying to modulate by a given interval probably won't have the effect you intended.

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Stu Cox |

I have a small piano picture with all the keys written in the blank gaps (in the spanish piano keys aren't labeled as C,F,B etc... i don't know if this happens in other countries) instead of having the tracks labeled as 8A, 9B... i have Cm F#m.

I find this more easy to understand that a number who makes you unclear on which key are you working on, i mean you know 8A and 8A/B or 9A/B sound properly but possibly 5A is a good combination too while 6A sounds horrible, if you learn the meaning behind this numbers it will be easier for you to mix in key.

But in addition if you are unsure what the key is you can guess what will work. For example if you are sure the track playing is F# try a track that you think is a # because most of times it will sound ok. And roots sound right with other roots unless is the key next to the one playing (some exceptions but this would be entering in music theory, grab a digital piano if you don't have one and experiment, is indeed very intuitive)

And you can cover some gaps Dm sounds right with F#m and A# with F, but mostly your ears will tell you if you are right or not, this is helpful to add some order into the chaos of your collection but dont be stubborn thinking you are mixing in key when not, use your ears.

Mixed In Key??
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Last edited by atxbigballer1 on Jan-07-2011 at 05:40

quote:

Originally posted by atxbigballer1 Mixed In Key?? Forget that virtual dj is now free! http://www.virtualdj.com/download/free.html http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...70&forumid=8&s=

how come is it free now? Where's the trick?

If you rely on software to distinguish the keys of tracks for you, you are NOT A DJ. Simple as that.

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quote:

Originally posted by stealthman If you rely on software to distinguish the keys of tracks for you, you are NOT A DJ. Simple as that.

That's a fairly extreme opinion which probably excludes the vast majority of the 'DJs' any of us go to see! Most DJs haven't got a clue about keys.

I do tend to oppose most "you're not a DJ unless..." statements anyway though. To me a DJ is simply anyone who plays recorded music to an audience: whether they mix or not, any medium (CD, vinyl, MP3s, etc), any music, any kind of audience - radio listeners, club goers, online downloaders, people at birthday parties, or even just themselves. The only criteria are choosing the music themselves and pressing play themselves.

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Stu Cox |

even if it keys it wrong, it is probably close enough. You might have a dorian scale instead of natural minor but I can understand the usefulness of batch processing and having a slightly more involved understanding of the track you are playing. The basses will probably line up. I just hope people don't try to make their entire set in the same key. The actual change in keys is what can make your set interesting. KNowing that the next track is one half tone higher can add that little punch and having that information can't hurt.

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quote:

Originally posted by stealthman If you rely on software to distinguish the keys of tracks for you, you are NOT A DJ. Simple as that.

and your a newb

quote:

Originally posted by orTofønChiLd and your a newb

I'm sorry, but....

if I were a newb, I'd have trouble using my ears to detect the keys of tracks before mixing them in naturally instead of relying on software to do all the work for me while I sit back lazily on my ass. Besides, where is the fun and challenge in that? Oh wait, it's too hard!

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quote:

Originally posted by stealthman I'm sorry, but.... if I were a newb, I'd have trouble using my ears to detect the keys of tracks before mixing them in naturally instead of relying on software to do all the work for me while I sit back lazily on my ass. Besides, where is the fun and challenge in that? Oh wait, it's too hard!

Stop feeding a stupid comment.

As usual Stu's spot on and MFB has also hit the nail on the head

Surprised this thread is still going. I'm desperately trying to think of something new and fun for the DJ Booth. Yet to think of anything though.

a little update to my previous post:
i did some research and found that RE tends to perform a little better than either MixMeister and MIK.

right now, i'm running RE3 beta and gotta say, the amount of options is amazing. you can even get separate analysis for keys/bpm from the beginning and ending of a track.

just to confirm what others have said here, these are good tools for analyzing a large collection, but always check actual compatibility beforehand (or on your headphones before you mix in). although, this is essentially a non-issue if you're putting a set together in ableton.

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quote:

Originally posted by kadomony right now, i'm running RE3 beta and gotta say, the amount of options is amazing. you can even get separate analysis for keys/bpm from the beginning and ending of a track.

If this work right this is just what i am looking for... comes from heaven i guess because this evening i was thinking about getting rid of mik mixmeister and manually key my tracks according to the bass at the first and last beats which is what really counts when mixing. Will give it a try for sure and if works, they got a client.