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Originally posted by nortek wat

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Originally posted by DJ RANN And very good point from Shamini - please tell me what tracktor does that I can't do creatively and really easily with decks and a mixer.

Tell me what CDs do that you can't do creatively with vinyl turntables.

Are you just too lazy to carry all that vinyl around?

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Originally posted by DJ RANN And very good point from Shamini - please tell me what tracktor does that I can't do creatively and really easily with decks and a mixer.

I wasn't trying to make a point. I asked a question in search of a legitimate answer from those that say they are able to do more creative stuff since Traktor does everything for them. I have nothing against Traktor, but all I can think of is effects, loops, hot cues, "remixing" on the fly, etc.

Ok my turn. Every format has its good points and bad points. Yes CD's skip, but so does vinyl. DVS has issues as well. Hard drives fail, computer crashes, needle drops signal to the interface especially when the vinyl gets dirty. No technology is 100% failure free. How many of us have walked into a booth where the club gear doesn't work.

In some instances, DVS will work better in a club. I've been to a few new clubs and maybe it's just me but, it seems like the booth is getting much smaller. Where are gonna put all the vinyl. I've seen clubs that only have 2 1200's and a mixer. No CDJ's, and some where the lighting guy and the video guy are shoved into the same booth as you. The point I'm trying to make here is, technology is changing every day. Everyone has a different taste when it comes to technology. The younger generation of DJ's weren't exposed to all vinyl like most of us were. They're growing up in the age of the computer, so naturally this would be the route they're gonna go. I personally don't see any issues whether you use CD's, Vinyl, DVS, or combination of all. (no ipod's accepted). As long as you don't allow the technology to do the thinking for you. I've used all the above. When I play out, I prefer CD. But have used Torq on several occasions. Unfortunately, I found too many issues with Torq. So I bought Traktor instead. Hoping to have some time off so I can actually sit down and practice with it.

It's funny. Audio engineers had this same discussion back in the nineties when the digital mixing console came out. I was one of the first to jump on the wagon. Not because I think digital sounds better, as I prefer analog, but because it's cheaper to bring a digital console on tour with all the effects, and other shit built in, than having to tour with an analog desk, sometimes even 2 desk, plus an extra 4 or 5 racks.

Anyways, everyone is gonna have an opinion on what technology they like or dislike. In the end, it shouldn't matter what the technology is/was, the important thing is, did your audience have a good time.

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Originally posted by nefardec Are you just too lazy to carry all that vinyl around?

Not at all, I just can't fucking buy it anywhere. There are only two stores here in LA that sell EDM, one is OK and one is shit, but it costs me a fraction to buy it digitally and I get it sooner digitally.
There's only one store left in London and their a bunch of hipsters that only buy in crap electro.

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Originally posted by nefardec Tell me what CDs do that you can't do creatively with vinyl turntables.

1, You can't loop unless you juggle but then that requires two copies of the same vinyl (which gets expensive if you want to have that option with every track) and it takes two decks so unless you have a third you can't mix a new one straight in after the loop crescendos.

2, You can't quantise the loop to fractions of a beat.

3, You can't set multiple cue points on the same track or different ones and instantly jump to or from them.

4, You can't reverse the track unless you do the cotton reel trick (which is fucking shoddy) or specially mod the TT.

5, You can't use auto fader start from your mixer (minor one but you asked).

6, You can't master tempo.

7, You can't adjust the brake speed (unless you do the tricky mod)

8, You can't adjust the start speed (unless you do another tricky mod)

9, You can't tell the BPM of the track instantly (not that I use it but loads do.

10, No spdif out for digital recording.

So there's 10 things that TT's can't do that CD's can, and I'm only talking about CDJ800's, let alone 1000's or 2000's.

Shall I keep going? Bear in mind I'm a qualified technics and pioneer service technician.

tbh, it's not about the difference between these two because they both don't suffer from the same problems, bith subjective and objective that laptop djing does.

I like Serato, I just would prefer not use it to play out unless I had to play a wedding or function where a huge libarary of music is needed and crowd interaction/performance doesn't really matter.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN 1, You can't loop unless you juggle but then that requires two copies of the same vinyl (which gets expensive if you want to have that option with every track) and it takes two decks so unless you have a third you can't mix a new one straight in after the loop crescendos. 2, You can't quantise the loop to fractions of a beat. 3, You can't set multiple cue points on the same track or different ones and instantly jump to or from them. 4, You can't reverse the track unless you do the cotton reel trick (which is fucking shoddy) or specially mod the TT. 5, You can't use auto fader start from your mixer (minor one but you asked). 6, You can't master tempo. 7, You can't adjust the brake speed (unless you do the tricky mod) 8, You can't adjust the start speed (unless you do another tricky mod) 9, You can't tell the BPM of the track instantly (not that I use it but loads do.

These all are things that enable laziness and lame-ness in DJs that you've spoken out against.

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Originally posted by nefardec These all are things that enable laziness and lame-ness in DJs that you've spoken out against.

No, most of them are just fx functions which a turntable cannot do which was the original question, which as with all things, when used in conservative moderation can sound good and actualy enhance the music. The others are functional technical advantages (digi out for example), but neither detract from the DJ aspect in the same major ways that laptop sets do.

Why the fuck am I still justifying this to you?

You asked, I responded with clear points.

lol. Fucking purists.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad maybe if the dj played proper music, he wouldn't have to combine 4 records. Call me crazy but I think these kind of djs are just idiots trying to show off. A monkey can beatmatch. What djs should be focusing on is how to build sets , how to raise and lower tension, understand the affect of key relationships, using motives thru out a set. This sort of fancy mixing was impressive 15 years ago. It is just stupid these days.

This. Minimal tracks are crap, you play 4 tracks to create 1 house track... plus the 1st guy would make me leave the club, very impressive but the energy of the track is fluctuating, just seem as random fader slam with no sense.

Jesus. This thread is beyond a joke.

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Funny how "don't say you spin on 4 decks if you're using Traktor" turned into 4 pages of digital vs. vinyl.

Semantics to us/them in 3 easy steps.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno Funny how "don't say you spin on 4 decks if you're using Traktor" turned into 4 pages of digital vs. vinyl. Semantics to us/them in 3 easy steps.

well to be precise, its Digital vs. Digital (cds versus DVS)



Vinyl was brought into the discussion to paint DJ RANN as a hypocrite for chastizing laziness of DVS users while he continues to enjoy auto fader start, push button cueing, instant bpm, easy looping versus cutting back and forth etc.