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DancingMonkey
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2007
Location: History

It's less about what is more repetitive, and more about what has been manufactured for him to enjoy(pop) his entire life versus his will or capability to find/understand something more.


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Old Post Oct-27-2010 17:45  United States
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by montana
jack you said "But poppy music is still more likely to use one-off elements, such as a guitar solo, a middle eight or a distinctive intro."
I usually find that it's this part of "pop" music that is usually taken out of it's context and looped up and made into a ultra repetitive dance-music track.

like i heard Abba's 'gimme gimme gimme' on radio recently but i came in right around the breakdown halfway in, and i as sampling type producer just thought. wow. that's amazing, never noticed that before, someone needs work that into it's own groove.


This is what I'm getting at. If someone sampled the break of Gimme Gimme Gimme and made a dance record out of it, you'd hear that part for six or seven minutes non-stop, and when you'd finished listening you'd probably be happy. When you listen to the original it plays for a minute or so, and so if you really enjoy that part of the song you probably want to go back and play it again to hear that moment.

This is the basic idea of sampling/looping culture: to take those special little moments of records people love the most, and make them the basis of the whole track.


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> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
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Old Post Oct-27-2010 17:55  England
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MrJiveBoJingles
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: U.S.

quote:
"I think we are trying to do that more and more now," says Sandison. "I like to think that where we are going is trying to compose totally horizontally. The vertical way of composing is the lazy way, where you just build stuff up and build stuff up, and then just bring them in and out. I think the way we work is so much more orchestrated, so that you can hear something that just happens, and you want it to carry on because it's so tantalizing, and you want to hear it again and again. We both understand the principle that if you put something beautiful into a piece of music just once, it makes people put the record back on because they want to hear it again."

"Someone criticized me once," recalls Eoin, "and asked why we'd made 'Roygbiv' so short. For us, that is exactly how long it should be. It's like that famous bit at the end of 'Strawberry Fields' by The Beatles, where you get the little voice at the end that says something like 'I buried Paul,' and it happens once, and it's such a transitory thing that's mixed in one ear really far away, but people went on and on about it for decades."

"You know," Sandison says, "if a contemporary producer, with that kind of '90s or 2000 mentality did something like that, it would be going 'bang, bang, bang, I buried Paul' over and over again all the way through it, and you would never want to hear it again.

http://fredd-e.narfum.org/formerboc/interviews/

Old Post Oct-27-2010 18:21  United States
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

I don't think the vertical loop-stacking methodology is necessarily inferior. It's so common in dance music because it works better on the dancefloor, and there's a huge amount of ultra-repetitive ambient/drone/etc. music that uses the looping well. It's all about picking the right methods for the intended effect.

The problem is when musicians and producers use it all the time without thinking of the intended effect.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Old Post Oct-27-2010 18:46  England
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nefardec
Tranceaddict in tranning



Registered: Oct 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
http://fredd-e.narfum.org/formerboc/interviews/


That reeks to me of the protestant work ethic.

I've long felt that this kind of horizontal composition is has its origins of protestant religious song tradition.


Why does music have to be hard work


I agree with SYSTEM-J that one is not superior to the other. They really serve two different functions.

In a way the DJ set comprised of vertically composed music is a kind of extended version of one orchestrated horizontal song.

Last edited by nefardec on Oct-27-2010 at 19:01

Old Post Oct-27-2010 18:56 
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Bierheld
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

If I look at the songs that always top the end-year top something thousand lists here they are always the songs that have changing, somewhat unrepetitive structures. Examples:
Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody, Meatloaf - Paradise by youknowhat and similarly ancient rock songs which, despite their age, can apparently be listened to over and over again by the most people. That might support the theory.

As for myself, according to my last.fm the most I've ever listened to a song is 15 times. And I can't say they're unrepetitive. But then again 15 times isn't exactly a lot. I always wondered when browsing through other peoples profiles why it is so common to listen to tracks or albums many dozens or even hundreds of times. I can't ever see myself doing so, because I can't fathom the thought of there not being something else out there I should be spending my listening time on. Although I won't deny instrumental albums get very repetitive after too many listens, but that may just be a mind set.

Sorry for raising more questions then answers.

Actually, now that i'm thinking about it. You say you don't listen to pop music much, which makes me think you donīt own much of it in comparison. If you'd have had a much larger collection of equally good pop music, would that mean the songs you mentioned would be played less?


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Last edited by Bierheld on Oct-27-2010 at 22:20

Old Post Oct-27-2010 21:47  Netherlands
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d-miurge
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Unicornland

I kinda agree with your theory, but I find it hard to explain it why, because "less repetitive music" refers to objective criteria whereas "more repetitive listening" refers to your own tastes and experience.

What is hard to explain is the link between the structure of a song and your own taste.
Imo it can be explained by 2 highly correlated factors:
- culture: what makes you like the song now, appreciate its originality, the emotion in it, etc.
- the objective quality of the song: there are no "scientific" criteria but you can build your own typology of "what a good song is in 2010". I can see 3 main factors: rhythm, melody and harmony (timbre is less important imo). The good combination of the 3 makes the quality of the song.
On a related issue, what we call a masterpiece is a song that transcend at least one of these 2 factors.

Old Post Oct-27-2010 23:12 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by Bierheld
Actually, now that i'm thinking about it. You say you don't listen to pop music much, which makes me think you donīt own much of it in comparison. If you'd have had a much larger collection of equally good pop music, would that mean the songs you mentioned would be played less?


Well I don't own much of it because I don't think most of it is very good. And such is the nature of pop music that there isn't really an underground pop scene full of great pop I haven't heard that, music that does pop in a way different to the pop I've heard on the radio.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Old Post Oct-27-2010 23:48  England
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Sykonee
Supreme EMCritic



Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Well I don't own much of it because I don't think most of it is very good. And such is the nature of pop music that there isn't really an underground pop scene full of great pop I haven't heard that, music that does pop in a way different to the pop I've heard on the radio.

Italo disco?


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Old Post Oct-28-2010 00:28  Canada
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QWERTY13
Junior tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
This is what I'm getting at. If someone sampled the break of Gimme Gimme Gimme and made a dance record out of it, you'd hear that part for six or seven minutes non-stop, and when you'd finished listening you'd probably be happy. When you listen to the original it plays for a minute or so, and so if you really enjoy that part of the song you probably want to go back and play it again to hear that moment.

This is the basic idea of sampling/looping culture: to take those special little moments of records people love the most, and make them the basis of the whole track.


I totally agree, word for word.

I was recently listening to 'The Smiths - Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want', and there's this 10 sec hook that I found myself rewinding and listening to over and over again. But it's not a conscious decision either, at least not until I look at the play count and realize that I've listened to this track for the 25th time.
And the repeats are mainly for the hook, not so much for listening to the track as a whole.



0.26 - 0.34

But in addition to that, I'm also looking at a list of my most played tracks and my number one is Modjo - Lady (Hear me Tonight),which is easily one of the most repetitive tracks; we're talking about a 5min track made of a looped 5sec guitar sample. But I imagine there will never come a day where I'd get sick of it - as simple as the melody may be.

Old Post Oct-28-2010 00:41  Canada
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by QWERTY13
But in addition to that, I'm also looking at a list of my most played tracks and my number one is Modjo - Lady (Hear me Tonight),which is easily one of the most repetitive tracks; we're talking about a 5min track made of a looped 5sec guitar sample. But I imagine there will never come a day where I'd get sick of it - as simple as the melody may be.


Sampled from Chic - Soup For One, where it plays in a similarly repetitive manner. I think disco is a blurred line between pure pop and the longer, more repetitive grooves of dance music.

Although I prefer my disco without the Italo.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Old Post Oct-28-2010 00:55  England
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QWERTY13
Junior tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ontario

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Sampled from Chic - Soup For One, where it plays in a similarly repetitive manner.


right, which seems to be common to house hits:
Supermode - Tell Me Why entirely samples Bronski Beat - Smalltown Boy
Eric Prydz - Call on me samples Steve Winwood - Valerie
Reflekt (feat. Delline Bass) - Need to Feel Loved samples the strings from Thomas Newman - Ghosts
etc.

Old Post Oct-28-2010 01:08  Canada
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