quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think you're confusing chill out with ambient.

Are you saying Owien is chill-out?

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

I've no idea who Owien is, but I can't imagine anyone who doesn't just listen to Ministry Of Sound "Chill Out" compilations reducing the vast breadth of ambient music to "a single, samey entity".

Again, I don't want to appear harsh but there's no better way of putting this: your weakness is simply that you are very, very bad at percussion. There is nothing interesting about your beats or your basslines. After you asked me to list positives, I listened to every track on your Soundcloud account and not one of the bottom ends was interesting to me. I really don't see why you put them in every track, and your only answer has been that they add a nebulous, ineffable "something". It really does just seem like you've listened to so much dance music you just can't move past the idea that a track needs a loud, repetitive beat to feel complete.

Ambient music doesn't have to be beatless, or lacking a pulse. However, the important thing is that you actually design percussion to accentuate the track's ambience. Your tracks rely heavily on breakbeats, but why? You're reluctant to say you're writing dance music, but the breakbeat is a dance beat, a DJ's creation. You don't seem to have put any creative thought into your beats. This is one of the reasons I think you're so poor at it - because those beats don't have any purpose and so they don't create any effect. Hence the advice from Poe.

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Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Again, I don't want to appear harsh but there's no better way of putting this: your weakness is simply that you are very, very bad at percussion.

I think you're trolling, dude. If you're not trolling, thanks. If you are, thanks. I get it. I hear you and even heard the Winter mixes and understand exactly what you're speaking to. It has been abundantly useful, but further pursuit, regarding your thesis, is unwarranted. I'm not sold and there is nothing you can say to sell me on it. I'm not going to be sucked into trying to explain to you the myriad reasons I think you're wrong. Trying to help you understand my thinking regarding the music I make at effort to defend it against your thesis is a monumental waste of time.








Meh.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

I'm not trolling. You guys seem to have a strange idea of what constitutes "trolling". I'm going to these lengths because I actually see potential in you, and you generally talk a good game. If you were some random kid who'd posted a shitty track I wouldn't even bother replying, or checking out any more of that kid's music. And I know that on any forum where amateurs share their creative efforts, there's always a severe deficit of people willing to be genuinely critical.

You've got your defence mechanisms: taste is subjective, you're still learning and so you don't expect things to sound perfect, you haven't got it quite right technically yet, I'm a troll... With all that in mind, why not take this opportunity to talk about the creative thinking behind your music? You answer most queries and criticisms with technical talk. How about some artist talk?

EDIT: Don't really understand what you're getting at with the Winter mix, either.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'm not trolling. You guys seem to have a strange idea of what constitutes "trolling". I'm going to these lengths because I actually see potential in you, and you generally talk a good game. If you were some random kid who'd posted a shitty track I wouldn't even bother replying, or checking out any more of that kid's music. And I know that on any forum where amateurs share their creative efforts, there's always a severe deficit of people willing to be genuinely critical. You've got your defence mechanisms: taste is subjective, you're still learning and so you don't expect things to sound perfect, you haven't got it quite right technically yet, I'm a troll... With all that in mind, why not take this opportunity to talk about the creative thinking behind your music? You answer most queries and criticisms with technical talk. How about some artist talk? EDIT: Don't really understand what you're getting at with the Winter mix, either.

I'm looking at the way you came into the thread in conjunction with your recent foray into the production studio, when I'm thinking you're trolling. I'm having trouble reconciling your recent behavior with your stated intent. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, Jack, but to say that we have a rapport I would put faith in is dubious. When I've tried to engage you on TA, in the past few months, I've been granted a begrudging cynicism which seems to consider all the reasons an idea I've proposed to be incorrect before it accepts it at face value; let alone considers one reason my idea might be correct. Furthermore, you're suggesting a radical change in the way I make music, stating that you've heard everything, when there has been no feedback offered prior, that would give weight to your suggestion.

I think you know I deplore intellectual dishonesty and I'm all for having a discussion about what my artistic intent is. I'm certain that you see I've recognized your capacity to discuss music and the validity of your insight. Your approach, however, leaves much to be desired and your position, however you've chosen to support it, is so radical that in conjunction with everything I've read to this point, I'm finding myself quite reluctant to discuss much of anything with you when you seem so eager to utilize such discussion for purposes it wasn't intended.

You seem to be suggesting that I do without a prominent rhythm but prominent rhythm is one of the aspects I like about dance music. It's one of the reasons I like doing what I do and, essentially, I'm looking at it as part of the totality. Without rhythm, the music is stripped. There were some selections in your Winter mix which pointed to some minimalist and chillout ideas I think might be pertinent when you're speaking to this. There were some breakbeats in certain tracks which illustrated a connection to the rest of the music, opposing mine, which seem to be operating independently.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

Are you making dance music, then? Earlier you seemed to shy away from agreeing to that.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Yes and no, if that makes any sense. I tend to think of it as an almost autistic hybrid, at this point. My whole approach has been to utilize the rhythmic motion but combine that with a top-down attention to the upper registers. Where dance really seems to place emphasis on the bass-line as a leading element, I tend to regard it as utilitarian; a crutch for the focus of the leading elements which I play with.

Consequently, what you're hearing is the song built in the upper registers with a bass-line trying to support that. In Taxi Driver Redux, that approach became especially problematic, but it's an excellent example of a track built from the top down, as well.

I hear the music which is strictly dance and am not seeking to emulate it. It's rather that I'm heavily influenced by its vibe.


Assuming you haven't heard them, yet:

http://soundcloud.com/theunendingquartet


I'm pretty sure this is Owen/Owien, who was referred to, earlier, in this thread by Mr. Butler.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

Yeah, I thought as much. I still recommend you cut it out for a track and just try and make the most of your atmospherics. Listen to a lot of minimal and dub, get an idea of the use of space and minimalism in percussion to create atmosphere and effect, the same way you make effective, atmospheric top-ends.

Perhaps after that go all out in the opposite direction to make a track all about a danceable clubby groove. When you've spent some time in the extremes you'll probably have a much better idea of how to make them work together.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yeah, I thought as much. I still recommend you cut it out for a track and just try and make the most of your atmospherics. Listen to a lot of minimal and dub, get an idea of the use of space and minimalism in percussion to create atmosphere and effect, the same way you make effective, atmospheric top-ends. Perhaps after that go all out in the opposite direction to make a track all about a danceable clubby groove. When you've spent some time in the extremes you'll probably have a much better idea of how to make them work together.

I'm going to do that. I'm thinking one dubby, minimal, but harmonic and atmospheric, one strictly or dominantly percussive, and then finish it out with something entirely different.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

I looove this so much!

The vocals are perfect and the track is brooding and eerie.

Almost deep hous-ey.

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