Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Chill Out Room > Help regarding black culture (academics welcome)
Pages (4): « 1 2 3 [4]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
Halcyon+On+On
Liebchen



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: midcoast

You'll have to wear it around your neck at all times, too.


___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Old Post Feb-06-2011 22:41 
Click Here to See the Profile for Halcyon+On+On Click here to Send Halcyon+On+On a Private Message Add Halcyon+On+On to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
nefardec
Tranceaddict in tranning



Registered: Oct 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
Thanks, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Strangely, it's listed at $75 brand new, or $999 second-hand on Amazon. Some UK-based sellers have it for normal prices though.

Apart from using it for this article, the book sounds like a very interesting read in itself. Come to think of it, I've read a depressingly small amount of printed literature about electronic music. Now could be a good time to order some books and learn something.


huh? on the US amazon the used copy is $4.46.

Old Post Feb-06-2011 22:43 
Click Here to See the Profile for nefardec Click here to Send nefardec a Private Message Add nefardec to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lunar Phase 7
Not a Flying Toy.



Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Zone 4

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Simon Reynolds has written quite a bit about how black musicians are often interested in material displays of status.He has a whole chapter in his book Energy Flash discussing the social context behind the emergence of jungle in the early 90s which is well worth a read. He's also written a lot about hip-hop in many sources, and has used Marxism and other critical theory to explore hip-hop culture.

Reynolds has argued that mid-90s drum 'n bass with its obsession with jazz and live instrumentation was attempting to connote up-market "classiness", a very different methodology to hip-hop but the same basic aim. I think the idea is very simple: a lot of black music, particularly hip-hop and drum 'n bass, has its origins in urban poverty, a world in which material wealth is of upmost concern. You don't have to just look at black culture to see poor people everywhere delight in shows of wealth - just look at white British chav culture with its cheap bling and fake designer clothes. To people who have no money, wealth is the ultimate fantasy.

This isn't inherently a black thing, it just so happens that important black musicians of the last century were mostly very poor. That in itself is down to obvious social conditions. Reynolds also points out that 90s drum 'n bass prided itself in being "black music" even though a large percentage of the producers and listeners have always been white. In the drum 'n bass underground, he claims, "blackness" is not about race but about social class and background.

Or, as Jay-Z put it: "Critics say he's money, cash, hoes - I'm from the hood stupid, what type of facts are those?"


You're spot on mate actually.


___________________
Nothing lasts, nothing lasts, everything is changing into something else. Nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong, everything is on track...

You know, William Blake said... uh, nothing is lost. Nothing is lost and I... I really believe that, we only move on...

Old Post Feb-06-2011 23:28  United Kingdom
Click Here to See the Profile for Lunar Phase 7 Click here to Send Lunar Phase 7 a Private Message Add Lunar Phase 7 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
You know what I think is more interesting?

Why is it that early hip hop was more interested in speaking about daily life in the neighborhood community, family traditions, musical tradition, social problems that affect the community, friendly competition with other mcs, radical politics etc?

When did hip hop become obsessed with fame, social status, money? Who bestowed upon hip hop musicians these things? What is the rubric?

Who created and perpetuated the media loop and the fantasy narrative of young black musicians making it big by playing along with the music industry system?


The most obvious point was the transition from east to west coasts. In New York the hip-hop scene was lucky enough to have people like Afrika Bambaataa guiding it, where it was an alternative to gang culture, an escape from it. When it made it to LA there was no such figure who was there right from the start, and so it became the soundtrack to gang culture. Organised crime is in itself an escapist fantasy from poverty - look at all the rags-to-riches gangster movies, and how hip-hoppers idolise fictional criminals like Tony Montana.

I don't know as much about the west coast origins as I do about the NYC origins, but I think hip-hop had to be invented in a feel-good, non-threatening party context. It is, after all, DJ music in the purest sense, and so it was always going to originate in an environment of positivity and communal togetherness. Gangsters couldn't have invented the idea of hip-hop, but once they got hold of it they made it very popular. Gangster rap has an edge, it offers a dangerous thrill to middle class listeners that had been in short supply in mainstream music in the 1980s. Rock music had long since lost its transgressive thrill in the silliness of hair metal. Axl Rose was the most badass figure suburbinates had to turn to in the late 80s, with his try-hard sleazy lyrics about fucking prostitutes. I often think of that shot in the video to You Could Be Mine where he's wearing an NWA baseball cap as the symbolic baton-handing, the moment where gangster rap officially usurped guitar rock as the music of choice for dull middle class kids looking to alienate their parents.

quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
Thanks, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Strangely, it's listed at $75 brand new, or $999 second-hand on Amazon. Some UK-based sellers have it for normal prices though.

Apart from using it for this article, the book sounds like a very interesting read in itself. Come to think of it, I've read a depressingly small amount of printed literature about electronic music. Now could be a good time to order some books and learn something.


I'd check out his book Bring The Noise, an anthology of articles he wrote between 1985-2005, with notes written later reflecting on what happened since he wrote them. You'll find more of his writing on hip-hop there, and I also seem to remember that's where I got this upwardly-mobile-jungle idea from as well.


___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

Last edited by SYSTEM-J on Feb-07-2011 at 01:16

Old Post Feb-07-2011 00:52  England
Click Here to See the Profile for SYSTEM-J Click here to Send SYSTEM-J a Private Message Visit SYSTEM-J's homepage! Add SYSTEM-J to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Sphere City
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2009
Location: Beezlebub

GET THIS MAN SOME...







GRAPE DRANK

Old Post Feb-07-2011 08:52  Bhutan
Click Here to See the Profile for Sphere City Click here to Send Sphere City a Private Message Add Sphere City to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
mto
Hip-Hop



Registered: Mar 2003
Location: FL, USA
Re: Help regarding black culture (academics welcome)

quote:
Originally posted by Domesticated
I'm writing an article in which I want to touch very briefly on the idea that black people are more status driven than other ethnic groups. I don't think this is a crazy idea considering things like bling-bling, hydraulic cars, or the idea that a particular rapper has more credibility if he's from a rough neighbourhood or has been involved with gangs, et cetera.



You sir, are a fuckin' idiot.


___________________
I needed to believe in something
I need you to believe in something

Old Post Feb-08-2011 08:29  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for mto Click here to Send mto a Private Message Add mto to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Bluestone
tranceaddict in training



Registered: Nov 2004
Location:

http://www.aaas.fas.harvard.edu/dir...rcyliena-morgan

Old Post Feb-08-2011 09:29 
Click Here to See the Profile for Bluestone Click here to Send Bluestone a Private Message Add Bluestone to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
saluyamo
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2007
Location: Newcastle, Australia

quote:
Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights
black ppl just have more obvious indicators of status.
white ppl are status driven too: "i'm on a boat"


Old Post Feb-08-2011 09:41  Australia
Click Here to See the Profile for saluyamo Click here to Send saluyamo a Private Message Add saluyamo to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
jdat
Jay Van Dat



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: I dont even know

Old Post Feb-08-2011 10:13 
Click Here to See the Profile for jdat Click here to Send jdat a Private Message Add jdat to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
EgosXII
Aphorism



Registered: Apr 2007
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by jdat


that's great!


___________________
-Everything I Say is a Lie-

Old Post Feb-08-2011 10:48  Netherlands
Click Here to See the Profile for EgosXII Click here to Send EgosXII a Private Message Add EgosXII to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Chill Out Room > Help regarding black culture (academics welcome)
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (4): « 1 2 3 [4]  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackBest hard techno tune I've ever heard [2002] [5]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackDidier Sinclair & DJ Chris Pi - Heavenly [2005]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 20:40.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!