quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Are you serious? The whole time I was reading the article, I was wondering where all his facts were coming from. He's just making shit up off the top of his head. i.e. "In 2000, an average vinyl single generated a return of a couple of thousand Euros, while in 2011 the same single generates a loss of a couple of hundred Euros, even without what were formerly known as “production costs.” Anything on top, like a bigger production, a decent mastering, or proper sleeve design became factors of deepening material loss. That area of the craft gets subsequently cut off and replaced by an undiscriminating routine of two-step-distribution: “save as” and “upload to.” Fleeing to a purely digital distribution doesn’t look that much better in general: only an established artist backed by a strong physical release experiences significant digital sales. The overwhelming majority goes by unnoticed. The average “digital only” dance single generates around 100 Euros of profit, for both artist and label, now most often being the same person. And these figures go down, too." "The artists’ disillusionment leads to ever lamer results in music — why bother? A single produced hastily in two hours work sells 500 units, while a delicate masterwork moves 800 (plus a bit of beer money from Beatport). These figures are in constant decline, too. The market average first pressing of a vinyl 12″ is 300 units now, which regularly indicated sales below this figure (deduct records given away as “promotion” and to friends)."

And you think these statements are false why? Does he need to cite his sources like he's in college?

quote:

Originally posted by iammesol And you think these statements are false why? Does he need to cite his sources like he's in college?

If you're making outlandish statements and quoting stats like that, then some sort of reference must be made to where he is getting this info otherwise he could just be exaggerating for all we know and that clouds readers judgement on whether not to believe him. If he offered some sort of reference then we would not be judging.

The conclusion here was:

"Key takeaway from this: If you're not dedicated for life and doing something truly original, just quit. If you are, keep going! Your time will come!"

I think that may be true of people who want to make it in the music business as a sole one-track career. Burt what of those who may be more casual in the desire to make music.In other words, satisfy themselves and their friends, and if the hobby turnsd into something more lucrative, that's a bonus. Sometimes I see "dedication" as obsession, and a failure to get a perspective on other things in life.

Sorry, it sounds like I'm lecturing!

But very interesting feature and posts.

If you feel you need a break, then have a view of and listen to this exciting new artist I came across: Nicki Minaj Girls Fall Like Dominoes

quote:

Originally posted by Ash Parajuli If you're making outlandish statements and quoting stats like that, then some sort of reference must be made to where he is getting this info otherwise he could just be exaggerating for all we know and that clouds readers judgement on whether not to believe him. If he offered some sort of reference then we would not be judging.

What is so outlandish about them? They're spot on from what I've seen.

Are you talking about where he says the average sales? I don't think he's including everyone, just those that are actually selling - like Sander van Doorn for example. He wasn't extremely popular, but did have sales.

quote:

Originally posted by chou4555 If you feel you need a break, then have a view of and listen to this exciting new artist I came across: Nicki Minaj Girls Fall Like Dominoes

Really? You just came across this?

Felt it necessary to add it to a thread, the premise of which includes elements of misrepresentation within the music industry as it relates to dance music with a link to a woman doing the Macarena to a techno sound-track while regurgitating PR fueled, press-release pablum, in a news story about Nicki Minaj?


itn - Britney and Nicki Minaj team up?

Bravo. Well-played, really. Offer the prospect of "taking a break" and then issue what should be taken a break from.



Tell me, you're being ironic, please, because it's hard to contemplate living in a world so full of shit pushed with that much sincerity.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

Last edited by EddieZilker on Apr-20-2011 at 16:02

quote:

Originally posted by iammesol And you think these statements are false why? Does he need to cite his sources like he's in college?

And you take these statements as truth why

quote:

Originally posted by iammesol And you think these statements are false why? Does he need to cite his sources like he's in college?

I hate to say this, as I agree, for the most part, with the essay. Citation, however, would do wonders for it. It's not difficult to infer what he says is happening, is happening. Without citation, though, the claims stand as somewhat hyperbolic anecdotes.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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quote:

Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

There's this chart, here, which shows artist profits from various download and streaming sources:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.n...ts-earn-online/

Therre Thaemlitz also discusses some of the trends surrounding the profitability of producing music and putting it on vinyl, here:

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/...ghts/transcript

quote:

Terre Thaemlitz: »It is kind of funny that a lot of the things that came out as 12”s on my label were things that other people actually asked me to produce. I think two of three of the EPs on my label were things that Joe Clausell asked me to produce, and then when he heard it he didn't like it, so I did it on my own label. This sort of situation is typical where I would produce something and then maybe try and shop it around a little bit, but if nobody was biting, then I would try and put it out on my own. I always had very complicated relationships with distributors, though, because I just do not trust distributors at all. Every time that I have given them product to try and sell the way that the distributor situation works is, a) they never sell anything, and b) the returns never come back, c) the payments don't come. It's like, distributors, in a way, especially in the ‘90s and things, they really relied on this continual supply of records from people who were just willing to get their stuff out there. Continually providing them with content in the same way that people provide content to MySpace and all these sorts of things for free. When on the Internet, of course, they're making royalties from advertising and all these sorts of things. In terms of the distributors and stuff it was always the people who had the most to lose financially, the people in the most tenuous situation, they would get the least back. For me, it just doesn't make sense to produce music in that way and it still doesn't, so if I can't get a distributor to pre-order and prepay for a release, then I would take that prepayment to manufacture it, then I won't release it. It is like, if I can't sell it myself, and I can't find a distributor who is willing to work under conditions that allow me to support myself, to sustain what I do, then it is really OK to walk away from it. I think that is something that people have to come to define in their own lives: at what point are you willing to walk away from things? I don't mean this in any sort of heroic way and I'm not saying this is going to help your career by getting more of your own identity and people know what to get from you. It is totally a death wish to do this sort of thing, but I think as a person, at least for me, it is important to be able to walk away from things, even if it means getting hurt a little bit, it's OK.«

quote:

Terre Thaemlitz: »The actual dead stock archive is a room in my apartment that holds all the unsold records that I have ever produced. Over the years I had a series of problems with major online distributors, like iTunes and Juno and eMusic and stuff selling my albums without contracts with me. And when I would write to them and to say I was the owner of the works and asking them to get them taken down or who uploaded them, who they were paying royalties to or whatever, totally no response. It took me years to get these things offline, and it was finally in 2008 when the last of it finally came down off of Juno. I don't like the idea of putting my content back into these bastard sites. So I didn’t want to come up with an online solution but instead with an offline solution to how people could have access to my catalogue. But I also wanted to get away from this idea of the way that this online distribution works, where people are just looking to get more for their money, get a quick download and more and more content for less and less. Now you have not only the CD length, which is twice as much as the length of a vinyl record, but then you also have the digital exclusive tracks and ‘blah, blah and blah, blah’. DJ mixes and podcasts and stuff, like the podcast that Resident Advisor finally pulled out of me after asking for a couple of years. So anyway, Dead Stock Archive, I wanted to create an offline alternative to these things and also have an economic relationship that people have to this archive and it isn’t an easy transactions or something. It has a big sticker price, I guess there are 600 or 700 tracks on it and I sell it for €220. So if you break it down into 39 cents a track, but that is a massive bite for anybody and you can guess how well it has been selling. The idea of this is that the type of music I do, which is not the type of thing that gets majorly distributed and which makes no sense to be majorly distributed, it is really about trying to encourage an economic relationship with the listeners that is about sponsorship and about taking a kind of different economic relationship to the production of what you're listening to. This is not something that people can easily step into economically or psychologically in terms of consumer relations and stuff, but for me, it was more important that I try and make the catalogue available, but make it available in a way that will not necessarily be about sales or be about replication. It just seems like with the Internet everyone is so hyped up about the idea of having access, access, access, but we know that is not really how the Internet works. It is white noise and we have to filter this out to find what we want. Even though we have billions of tracks online, when we look for music online we don't start with a billion tracks, we go to a specific site or we have producers we are looking for in the same way that we would go into a record store and start being selective and stuff. So I think this is an illusion to get away from and to me, the Dead Stock Archive was a kind of offline reaction to that kind of consumer spontaneity and also to the distributor.«

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Promo And you take these statements as truth why

Trust the statements if you want, or not. You rarely take anything in the music business seriously anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by iammesol Trust the statements if you want, or not. You rarely take anything in the music business seriously anyway.

The condescension bomb has been dropped.

That was an interesting read... thanks for posting

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"In a world of illusion you only see what you feel"