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p.s. i find it quite funny how alot of athiests use evolution as an excuse, but if you look on the web (dont know what site) but there is a $1m reward for one person to give scientific evidence of evolution.

I presume you're talking about Ken Horvind, who is little more than a swindling crook (er.... apparently).

This page deals with that "reward" you're talking about, which, needless to say, is entirely bogus:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/kent_hovind_page.htm

Click on the "Ken Hovind's Bogus Challenge" link to read up about it.

Although I personally don't believe that there is a God, I find it really difficult to comprehend how so many coincidental things can exist in the Universe. Just look at Earth - I understand the science behind how Earth is the only planet in the Solar System that can support life, but isn't it a huge coincidence that a) Earth is placed a 'suitable' distance from the Sun so it is neither too hot nor too cold, b) Earth has an atmosphere incorporating an ozone layer to filter out harmful UV radiation and burn up Crap floating about in space, c) conditions have always been favourable for life to flourish on just this one planet of the hundreds known, and d) humans and animals almost seem to have been 'designed'? I know these are poor examples but hopefully you can see what I'm getting at - the universe seems to be one giant jigsaw puzzle and all the pieces fit exactly even though they might not appear to be the right shape.

I can't help sometimes thinking that we are part of a bigger picture, a picture that we will never see, a picture that might not have been painted yet. We could be living in a Matrix-esque scenario for all we know! Oh wait...it's just a film.

Anyway, here's a point: if Adam and Eve were the first two humans on Earth, wouldn't them and their children have had to shag each other in a forbidden incest-stylee to get the human race going? And does that mean we are all related?

___________________
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isn't it a huge coincidence that a) Earth is placed a 'suitable' distance from the Sun so it is neither too hot nor too cold, b) Earth has an atmosphere incorporating an ozone layer to filter out harmful UV radiation and burn up Crap floating about in space, c) conditions have always been favourable for life to flourish on just this one planet of the hundreds known, and d) humans and animals almost seem to have been 'designed'?

It's called the anthropic principle. It seems like the universe has been designed for us, whereas in actual fact we have evolved to fit in with the specifications of the universe.

If the Earth was a bit closer to the sun, or had a little more gravity, or hadn't been pelted with a comet 65,000,000 years ago we wouldn't be here, and some other animal would be standing where you are now thinking "jeez, if the Earth was a little cooler, had a little less gravity and had been hit by a comet 65,000,000 years ago, my species wouldn't be here. Therefore, the coincidence is far too large, and I must have been created in the image of some god! It all makes sense now!"

See the logic?

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Originally posted by TiestoFanMatt I am a catholic. I don't take the bible literally because allot i feel is written as messages of how life should be lived (as mentioned earlier by someone i think?) every religion is based upon faith. It doesn't evolve around scientific evidence and stuff like that. Faith is what religion is based around. I believe that evolution did happen, but why couldn't have god started the big bang for us to be created? Free will gives you the right to think what you think now! When you die, you'l go to heaven (b'coz "god is a dj" and he spins trance :P) and he wont judge you straight on the fact of whether you 'believed' in him or not, he would judge you on the life that you lived. p.s. i find it quite funny how alot of athiests use evolution as an excuse, but if you look on the web (dont know what site) but there is a $1m reward for one person to give scientific evidence of evolution. THe link "in theory" has been talked about, but it is still unproven. BTW if i got allot of stuff wrong with this don't flame me too much if im wrong, im not stufying philosophy lol!. As the phrase goes, 'everyone is entitled to their opinion'

omg. i'm sorry but where do i begin???

first of all you cannot be catholic and not believe in the Bible. The Bible and Jesus are the only pieces of "evidence" christians have. Where do you get this picture of Heaven and Hell and God without the Bible? If the Bible wasn't around, you would not be Catholic. So either put your faith that it is the book of God, or don't be a Christian. If you don't choose one of those two, you are ignorant.

What is the deal with all these "Christians" who arent even christians. soooo stupid.

___________________
The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.

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Originally posted by Tranzmit huh a leviathan is most certainly got nothing to do with satan mate. It's a prehistor beast or quite probably a dinosaur as we'd call it.

oops! yeah I know what it is... read the Satanic Bible! the forth book is that of the Leviathan

I see this thread evolved... unfortunately I did not have time to read all the replies yet.. maybe tomorrow...

hypRo

___________________
Kultified TrancEr

Very interesting topic indeed. Learned a lot. I have been in and out of churches throughout my life, and none of them really worked out. Always found something that i didn't like. Specially the no dancing thing, that just wont cut it. Anyway i don't know where i fit in, I try not to label myself at all.

Personally In a way i think we are all gods. I think way back whenever, people not having the same things we do now, dreamed of a life much different. A life where they could have and do whatever they want. Not be sick,not have to hide from savage animals. They dreamed of being these mighty people with no problems. They had a dream that one day they would be gods, they would be the ones that control everything, never sick, the power to do whatever whenever they want. Now look where we are, really think about it. If you want to be a dentist,if you want a be a DJ you can be one. If you want to go club, go club, if you want to go shoot people well do that to. With modern medicine we are almost immune to anything, people live longer and with a higher quality of life. We are #1 on the food chain, we eat and kill anything. Now we pretty much do whatever we want and there isn't much to stop you from doing it(yes there are rules and if you break them your screwed, but this is just to keep false sense of balance.) People spend time at church, at home where ever, praising an all powerful entity, without stoping for a second to realize what they are. Sure we don't have the power to see whats happens before it does, or live forever. But maybe that is just because we aren't at that point yet. I don't know might sound crazy and really doesn't have anything to do with religion, other than to totally negate the presence of 1 superior being. I think back whenever, gods were just regular people, regular people that realized their own potential. I think that now, everyone is a god in a way, and the only people that are not are the ones that don't realize it. Praise yourself, praise your friends praise anyone that means anything to you. Because unlike the gods that some pray to, these people can actually give you something. Things that are real, and things that are spiritual. Everyone has the power to give, love, feel, and do whatever they want, and because of that, to me everyone is a god.
Yes you can pick apart what i have said, but I think if everyone took the effort to love everyone like a god as they do the respective God or being they believe in, shit would just be better.
(no you don't have to love crazy people and killers and such that is a whole dif story and this is long enough) Anyway if any of you people actually read this your cool, cuz my grammar and spelling suck ass and ya, not really on topic. I could get more indepth and such with other things, but just didnt want to write a book at the moment.

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Originally posted by Renegade It's called the anthropic principle. It seems like the universe has been designed for us, whereas in actual fact we have evolved to fit in with the specifications of the universe. If the Earth was a bit closer to the sun, or had a little more gravity, or hadn't been pelted with a comet 65,000,000 years ago we wouldn't be here, and some other animal would be standing where you are now thinking "jeez, if the Earth was a little cooler, had a little less gravity and had been hit by a comet 65,000,000 years ago, my species wouldn't be here. Therefore, the coincidence is far too large, and I must have been created in the image of some god! It all makes sense now!" See the logic?

I actually do call that logic renegade. I'm bemused that scientists have come up with such far-fetched ideas as to how we "evolved" into what we are now. Thinking, feeling humans with a soul. (And if you don't believe me on that one they did some scientific tests on when people were on the point of death and found they weighed slightly less when they die. Something has left the body)

Whether you believe in a god or whatever i just don't see how all the beutiful things in life like the ocean and the way it reflects the warm rays of a sunset look. The Palette of the sky in a sunrise, love, the beauty of a women, making love, the way a mother looks at her children playing near her, the feeling we get inside us when we do something good and even the feeling we get when we help someone, the feeling i get when listening to trance.

All these things i just can't believe just fell into place or came together from some big-explosion millions of years ago that just happened to all come together the right way to give us what we have and what makes us human and beautiful.

But everyone has a right to their own opinion and i don't want to argue about this. It's a fucking beautiful day outside and i want to enjoy every bit of it

___________________

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Originally posted by davinox omg. i'm sorry but where do i begin??? first of all you cannot be catholic and not believe in the Bible. The Bible and Jesus are the only pieces of "evidence" christians have. Where do you get this picture of Heaven and Hell and God without the Bible? If the Bible wasn't around, you would not be Catholic. So either put your faith that it is the book of God, or don't be a Christian. If you don't choose one of those two, you are ignorant. What is the deal with all these "Christians" who arent even christians. soooo stupid.

Sorry man but i think u are misunderstanding what was said. I think what he means is that the bible was meant to be guide and the events entailed there did not literally happen. It doesn't mean he doesn't believe in the bible. It means just, he believes in the moral lessons of the bible, not that those actual events happened. U can faith in the lessons of the bible without having to believe those events actually happened can't u? Unless, u are implying that by being catholic u have to absolutely believe everything in the bible actually happened. If thats what u mean, i don't have any insight on that so maybe u can elaborate a little further. As for his comment on christians who aren't "real christians" he is referring to people who judge other people based on the beliefs in the bible. Sorry i agree with him there. If anything, christians are supposed to spread the word of God. Alot of these so called "christians" use it as a base to judge other people. People who walk up to me and say ur going to hell if u don't believe in God and things of that nature are wrong. They are using the bible as a standard to judge me. God will deliever his decision on me on judgement day. No other person will tell me what he or she thinks God intended from their simple interpretation of the bible. These are the people i believe he is referring to as "christians who aren't christians." And in that context i am inclined to agree. I am not saying this to look down upon christians and such because i was one of them. But, criticizing and judging other people from the standards of the bible is not Gods work. If anything its prejudicial. and it goes on in every church.Judging people doesn't spread the word of the gospel any.

Last edited by Elysium on Aug-19-2002 at 05:33

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Originally posted by FrosT Very interesting topic indeed. Learned a lot. I have been in and out of churches throughout my life, and none of them really worked out. Always found something that i didn't like. Specially the no dancing thing, that just wont cut it. Anyway i don't know where i fit in, I try not to label myself at all. Personally In a way i think we are all gods. I think way back whenever, people not having the same things we do now, dreamed of a life much different. A life where they could have and do whatever they want. Not be sick,not have to hide from savage animals. They dreamed of being these mighty people with no problems. They had a dream that one day they would be gods, they would be the ones that control everything, never sick, the power to do whatever whenever they want. Now look where we are, really think about it. If you want to be a dentist,if you want a be a DJ you can be one. If you want to go club, go club, if you want to go shoot people well do that to. With modern medicine we are almost immune to anything, people live longer and with a higher quality of life. We are #1 on the food chain, we eat and kill anything. Now we pretty much do whatever we want and there isn't much to stop you from doing it(yes there are rules and if you break them your screwed, but this is just to keep false sense of balance.) People spend time at church, at home where ever, praising an all powerful entity, without stoping for a second to realize what they are. Sure we don't have the power to see whats happens before it does, or live forever. But maybe that is just because we aren't at that point yet. I don't know might sound crazy and really doesn't have anything to do with religion, other than to totally negate the presence of 1 superior being. I think back whenever, gods were just regular people, regular people that realized their own potential. I think that now, everyone is a god in a way, and the only people that are not are the ones that don't realize it. Praise yourself, praise your friends praise anyone that means anything to you. Because unlike the gods that some pray to, these people can actually give you something. Things that are real, and things that are spiritual. Everyone has the power to give, love, feel, and do whatever they want, and because of that, to me everyone is a god. Yes you can pick apart what i have said, but I think if everyone took the effort to love everyone like a god as they do the respective God or being they believe in, shit would just be better. (no you don't have to love crazy people and killers and such that is a whole dif story and this is long enough) Anyway if any of you people actually read this your cool, cuz my grammar and spelling suck ass and ya, not really on topic. I could get more indepth and such with other things, but just didnt want to write a book at the moment.

Hey Man, i know how u feel. I've bumped from church to church feeling outcast simply because i refused to conform to the norm. Alot of churches even look at trance as the devils music. Unfortunately that has to do with the scenes connetation with drugs. at least thats what i think. Anyhow, crazy as it sounds i agree with what u said. Funny thing is i've said it myself sometimes and been criticized of being blasphemous. But i understand what u mean. Its not to mean we are all powerful and omnipotent but, we the capacity with in all of us to do so much. But understand that alot of people will never understand what it is to see things in this light. too many people fear the truth and let it dictate their lives. if only people could let go of their fears and truly be free. its the difference of being afraid (we all have that) and living in fear. even though its sad to say, sometimes the only time we see people let go of their fears is in the greatest time of tragedy. Anyhows, i am rambling but, what u say is not off the topic and i think its a really deep thing to say. Cheers

I dont know if you could call my beleifs religion but it is in what i beleive.Chaos.The one defining factor of life.The universe being a prime example,no order,no direction,just there,growing,moving.The universe is like we are,no matter how many treaties we sign or hands we shake nothing will ever be static.

___________________
Ask a question and you will see chaos is the answer.-Mashinko

Elysium Thanks for reading that . Glad you know what im saying. I was waiting for sombody to say that im full of myself or soemthing along those lines calling myself and everyone gods. My definition of a god is a bit diferent/loose than most. And totally agree about the truth. Most people do take for granted what they have but can not see. I am gulty of it myself most of all, because i do know its there but choose to ignore it most of the time.

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sometimes the only time we see people let go of their fears is in the greatest time of tragedy

Also very true and nicely put. Once the everyday cloud of fears and missinformation is parted we see the gods come out to strike. But it is sad that it takes a ray of light so strong to shine through to them before action is taken. Sometimes you wish you could just slap someone on the forehead and they would just get it. Like oh damn.....i see what your saying. To me honestly everying i said makes perfect sense. Even a person that has a belief in a higher being/entity/god whatever should see it. What kills me is people that take communion. They take the body and blood of a god, consume it, make it a part of them and still act as if they have no power. Still bow down, still wait for orders. Its just not right, nobody is meant to, or was made to be a slave, although people willingly become them.