The claims that the film inspired violence would be more credible if 1) the film, itself, wasn't the victim of its own self-parodying craftsmanship and 2) if extremist violence wasn't common-place to begin with.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

The problem is the perpetrators of violence get it their way every time. The last time Terry Jones burned a Koran and riots and killings were in Afghanistan. FBI persuaded Terry Jones to stop. Ergo the perpetrators of violence got their will.

This time around, after the attack on the U.S. embassy (which formally is a declaration of war) Hillary has expressed her disgust - not of the murderers, but of the movie, and the FBI are now looking at whether the director can be arrested on some formalities that have nothing to do with the movie itself.

This also applies in other contexts. Take Kosovo, for example. Albanians for years wanted their own state, but didn't get support anywhere. So they made a guerrilla-movement, killing both Serbian government officials and civilians - which was terrorism - that immediately got the rest of the world to realize the fairness of them becomming independent. The rest is history.

The moral is: Violence works. Every time.

Last edited by Znack on Sep-17-2012 at 16:13

Actually, it doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Actually, it doesn't.

Surely you can give examples?

The very terrorists in this particular event will not get their way. They will not reset the world to a time of shepherds and tribes bent on conquest in the name of Allah; They will not stop the rest of the world from scrutinizing and ridiculing their God with the same lense it does any other, nor holding their adherents responsible for their completely illegitimate crimes. They will never escape the condemnation of the international community, nor that of their very countrymen - those whom their actions truly hurt the most - when they persist in carrying out sensationalist attacks upon innocent people because of what some idiotic movie said on the other side of the world.

Violence will not work for them. Every time. Period.

Their jihad is one of mistaken sovereignty, and their actions do not liberate them or their country, nor do they bring a modicum of respect for the nation of Islam or Muslims in general. They are nothing more than a frustrated minority eking out its final whimper before commerce and industry gives people something much better to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Znack This time around, after the attack on the U.S. embassy (which formally is a declaration of war)

No, it's not. The protesters are private citizens, they were not acting on behalf of any sovereign entity.

This was a planned attack and all of those extremist groups are responsible. if they felt bad for the Americans killed they would not be burning American flags like they are showing on TV. Who are the people holding those nice signs? Young kids, women etc? Give me a fucking break with that bullshit! Oh wait a minute. Another attack on us on 9/11? These people and these religions are all woven from blood and war.

For centuries three religions have been at the core of much of the hatred, bigotry and killings going on in this world: Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

For over a 1000 years they’ve fought and killed each other in crusades, inquisitions, invasions, wars, burnings, and executions.

Even today Christians hate Jews, Jews hate Muslims, Muslims hate Christians, Christians hate Muslims, Protestants hate Catholics, Shiites hate Sunnis’

All three religions teach the same thing: That our God is the only true God; that our beliefs are the only truth; and that the other guy’s Gods are false

The sad thing is that these religions all spring from the same source and all are really suppose to teach love, forgiveness, tolerance, kindness and peace.

Instead they all engage in hate, revenge, intolerance, and war.

The world would be a much better place if these three religions had never existed.

___________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter"

Dr.Seuss

Point.

Point.

Point.

Point.

Conclusion.

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quote:

Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

quote:

Originally posted by de+ "WASHINGTON—Following the publication of the image above, in which the most cherished figures from multiple religious faiths were depicted engaging in a lascivious sex act of considerable depravity, no one was murdered, beaten, or had their lives threatened, sources reported Thursday. The image of the Hebrew prophet Moses high-fiving Jesus Christ as both are having their erect penises vigorously masturbated by Ganesha, all while the Hindu deity anally penetrates Buddha with his fist, reportedly went online at 6:45 p.m. EDT, after which not a single bomb threat was made against the organization responsible, nor did the person who created the cartoon go home fearing for his life in any way. Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day." http://www.theonion.com/articles/no...is-image,29553/

That was awesome. I'd like to know what the US is waiting to start showing punishment to these people? Or are they seriously going to believe that bullshit that their governments are the ones taking care of this. If i were the president of the United States i'd walk go in and take those responsible ourselves. And making sure the public is warned that there will be NO TOLERANCE for any trouble our troops get and anyone that interferes will be dealt with in a way that is deemed reasonable by our troops.

I cant believe Obama sticks to that bullshit idea that these are our allies. Just like Afghanistan. Oh we didnt know this guy was here bullshit.

___________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter"

Dr.Seuss

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On

So you don't have any examples of violence not working?

quote:

They will not stop the rest of the world from scrutinizing and ridiculing their God with the same lense it does any other, nor holding their adherents responsible for their completely illegitimate crimes.

Unfortunately, that's not quite how it works. They of course, as you say, do not get to implement worldwide caliphate, but they get people in the western world to exercise self-censorship, and they have polarized the debate, so it appears as "them against us". As your post also suggests, they succeed in diverting attention from the fact that the world consists of 95% moderate and / or indifferent only 5% fanatics (percentages are plucked out of the air, but I don't think they are far off).

It's not like the perpetrators always achieve all their goals. It's actually rare. Kosovo is not an independent state yet, and to an even greater degree the same applies to Palestine. But violence put their cases on the agenda in a way that would be impossible without it.

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario No, it's not. The protesters are private citizens, they were not acting on behalf of any sovereign entity.

Like with the Danish Muhamed cartoon-crisis

Iranian police took part in the attack on the Danish embassy.
http://politiken.dk/udland/ECE13741...ansk-ambassade/ (Site is in Danish)