quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yes they do, you just don't know about them because you listen to an extremely narrow body of music.

Knew I would be given this response. Funny thing is I actually wrote while listening to your Time & Space mixtape. Yes, it's a really good mix, but has it anything to say about the human condition? That's all I'm asking.

BTW, could you please recommend me a good set that may for now, broaden my 'extremely narrow' taste?

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An ideadump

quote:

Originally posted by pointPi Knew I would be given this response. Funny thing is I actually wrote while listening to your Time & Space mixtape. Yes, it's a really good mix, but has it anything to say about the human condition? That's all I'm asking. BTW, could you please recommend me a good set that may for now, broaden my 'extremely narrow' taste?

If you want to listen to one of my sets that has something to say about the human condition, I recommend Post Apocalyptic Transmissions:

Post Apocalyptic Transmissions [Ambient/Techno/Dubstep] by Jack Moss on Mixcloud

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Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J If you want to listen to one of my sets that has something to say about the human condition, I recommend Post Apocalyptic Transmissions: Post Apocalyptic Transmissions [Ambient/Techno/Dubstep] by Jack Moss on Mixcloud More saliently, I was reading an article in The Wire magazine the other day about Sandwell District and their use of situationism, surely a suitably high brow concept to satisfy your requirements. Sandwell District were picked up by all the big blogs and the likes of Wire, which meant they will have sold a lot more copies of their last album than most of the jokers clogging up the Beatport Top 100. They are far from the only example of dance music that is increasingly being intellectualised by a new gentrified demographic of listeners, far away from the simulacra silliness of trance music "stardom". And actually, throughout the last 20 years there have been plenty of producers who've had huge success with records that meditate on the human condition, from Orbital's savage satire on modern society, Snivilisation, to Burial's aching encapsulation of inner city estrangement, Untrue. The problem for you is more likely that you just don't have the critical faculties to pick up on these themes when they're not being warbled at you above an acoustic guitar. Really though, this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to your naivety. Because I would argue the real problem with dance music is not that it isn't being intellectualised enough or that it doesn't have "anything to say", but rather than people like you are encouraging this false opposition where having "exceptional beats" and making people dance is seen as an inherently unintellectual, hedonistic and unimportant pursuit, which creates a chasm between the undanceable art-beats that get prime time on the likes of Resident Advisor and the moronic dancefloor shit clogging up the likes of A State Of Trance. There should be a more postmodern conception that making people dance is a statement on the human condition, and that actually making people dance is something that should require as much thought and intelligence as any conceptual piece that perpetuates the over-worn semiotic subject/object "but what does it mean?" paradigm of artistic merit. The trouble is that smart dance music is dying out, and producers increasingly recourse to the same tired, manipulative set pieces to inspire ever-diminishing reactions from an increasingly undemanding and uneducated crowd. What we really need is a critical discourse that doesn't attempt to justify dance music by writing bad lit crit essays about it but rather embraces the medium on its own merits.

Many thanks, Jack!

Anyway, regarding the whole "smart" dance music thing, you do have a point. Maybe it's my autism speaking, but instrumental music in of itself doesn't provide me with anything but mood, atmosphere, context etc. The "message" itself has to come in the form of lyrics, visuals and/or sound effects.

Here's the thing, the world is in trouble. Online hate speech, hostility towards science, over-romanticizing of masculinity, general fascism sweeping over Europe, family values constraining people's freedoms, failing educational systems, foreign cultures being ignored by the Western consciousness, democracy being rejected in the name of anti-colonialism. The list goes on about world problems that has just bothered me for a long time, some even since kindergarten age.

Art feels like a way for me to effectively express my feelings, reasoning, opinions and ideas regarding the subjects. I'm just so afraid no one will listen if I only express them in words, they need to be accompanied with music, poetry, visuals, storytelling etc. I only happen to be attracted towards a special range of EDM, as it to me represents my attitude towards matters.

The only problem is that whenever I put myself in front of my virtual studio, all enthusiasm drops to zero pretty quickly, and I end up making the same generic beats over and over again, that I think is okay but not upload worthy. Help me.

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An ideadump

LOL

Guys, let's solve the worlds ails on TA.

quote:

Originally posted by pointPi The "message" itself has to come in the form of lyrics, visuals and/or sound effects.

What do you mean by sound effects?

For me the message of the music just comes from the sound regardless of anything else.

Also I would argue you don't need visuals or lyrics at all to appreciate the message of most music (in relation to the human condition), both seem relatively shallow to me compared to the effect sound alone has. Also alot of music doesn't really have a "message" but is more like a concept.

EDIT:

Not really sure what I am trying to say, I guess its one of those things that can only be understood through music and not expressed through words.

this debate between program music and absolute has been going on for centuries. I think it depends on the person. Lyrics can add layers of interpretation as much as they can make it trite and annoying. And a kick drum by itself is rather boring. Absolute music is generally agreed upon by most as higher art but then you people like wagner who do works of art that are beyond comprehension in that it is hard to imagine how 1 person could do what he did. So I would not say there is a consensus then or now.

Dance music has always been on the lower side of art but what makes something merely dance music and then something that is more than just music for people to dance to is hard to quantify.

I find as long as something is different in some way, there is some merit in it.

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quote:

Originally posted by pointPi The only problem is that whenever I put myself in front of my virtual studio, all enthusiasm drops to zero pretty quickly, and I end up making the same generic beats over and over again, that I think is okay but not upload worthy. Help me.

If you don't accept less conventional methods of expressing a point or message, dance music is probably the wrong medium for you. You have certain ideas about how music can clearly express themes, then you pick a genre that doesn't really utilise those techniques. Any artist has to to spend years mastering their craft before they have complete artistic control, and you probably haven't put in the work yet. So I would suggest you serve your time, learn your craft and broaden either the music you make or your appreciation of different methods of creating and expressing meaning.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

I don't understand how bringing EDM to the mainstream is in anyway good. What's the point of rallying a promoter to spread dance music to more people in clubs? The result will be more people who have a less qualitative perception, ie people who are amused by the music enough to go get drunk and dance to it, but don't actually know enough to properly understand it as an aesthetic. Some people say ultimately exposure is a good thing but personally I miss when people gave less of a fuck about dance music and were listening to their own music, when I felt LESS embarrassed about liking dance music as opposed to now, when in the back of my mind I'm always thinking, "How can I defend this shit music when it just looks so damn foolish?".

10 years ago, fewer people listened to EDM in the US. The US didn't even try to catch up to the massives and excellent club nights that were happening in Europe and other places that entire time. Then, mainstream culture, since Americans have no fucking culture at all, avalanches and all the sudden dance music is "in". Fucking amnesiac wakes up. "Back then" (I'm not reminiscing) the person out of 100 who did listen to EDM, may have had decent taste and knew what they liked and was versed in the music. Now, 60 out of 100 like it and they know DICK about the music. It's all watered down, formulaic, recycled fucking garbage designed for their easy consumption.

But, with anything there is bad and good, and the scales ultimately will balance and this dance music fad will fucking go away (I hope), and eventually roots house music will start to engage people who have discovered that they like actual quality EDM, not just dance-infused pop music with artistically-stale, ripoff motifs in every song. I would rather have fewer people listen to EDM and actually have an appreciation for it than a multitude of shits who will emulate, copy, and conform to any mainstream fad who are basically making a complete mockery of the music, which is a cultural and musical phenomenon that they will never grasp.

Last edited by Evolve140 on Feb-21-2013 at 07:03

Do people who are devoted to conscious, underground Hip Hop give two shits about what Kanye's up to?

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quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Do people who are devoted to conscious, underground Hip Hop give two shits about what Kanye's up to?

Exactly... trying to get to that comfort zone with house music. nearly there.