Tehlord that's a fair point... But not in every situation and not given my situation, iam trying to say this as discreetly as I can because I have read through the forums and know the level of some of the people on here so I may as well refer to myself as a noob especially in this production environment, but if you think someone who was always referred to as the "musical genius" right through all schooling levels and has alot of friends in all genres of the music game because of that and has been a regular sitter in studios albeit in a completely different genre... And who is familiar with the logic interface? If you going to class that person in the same boat as the teenager who thinks Tiesto is cool "and I wanna sound like him" "teach me now" boat then I think you off track with assessing my intent on this venture!

Looney4Clooney makes the most logical point in my mind... Why on earth wouldn't you wanna learn on the best if you could. Maybe a Virus, logic and a set of pricey Avids seems incomprehensible to a complete noob who cant play a key if his life depended on it in your eyes but try not to class me in that boat and rather indulge me in my question! Please this thread is mostly occupied by whatshisfaces bullshit and by suggestions to knock a "noob" down to a budget setup.... I don't buy!!

If you were running logic what would your hard control be? And what's your take on the rest of the setup before this gets tedious... Leave the supposed noob learning curb out of it and answer from a point of "this would be my ultimate setup"!

Thanks!

2 different approaches. I would say my approach was right for me but I am not everyone. I also did place alot of faith in the sales people as there wasn't really any information on what synth you needed to make EDM at the time. I basically went in and described what i needed and if there was something that existed that did it. The guy at the Long and Mcquade were i lived was one of those Duda types that went on to be a developper for Cubase so he steered me away from the romplers which to me made the most sense at the time to actual synths. I could of just as easily ended up with a triton, a roland drum machine ..... I also bought alot of things on impulse that could of been disastrous. Like the UAD when it first came out. I think i was the first person in Western Canada to have one. It just made sense and this was when it did not have delay compensation and you had to do it manually. I was still using an external mixer but i was using the UAD as a processor with cubase.

I think you need to have an idea in your head what you want to do. I did. If you don't, i think you will find all this gear overwhelming. I rpobably wasted a bit of money and I was actually rather poor at the time compared to now but I was obsessive as I 've always been with anything music related.

someone asked the difference between the mackie and mc. The mackie is better build, faders are not as good, probably integrates better as it is a universal protocol that all DAWs will have. It is just so fucking ugly tho. It takes alot of space as well.

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Feb-24-2013 at 16:33

You nailed a lot of good points there, Trademark. First off, I don't see why people are freaking out here (well, actually, I do, and it's stupid), but the setup you are considering is not overboard by any means and it's still far simpler than what many of us learned on decades ago. You're looking at a good DAW, soundcard, monitors, hardware synth, software synth, and some hands-on peripherals (presumably because, like most musicians, you're more accustomed to working with tactile controls, rather than being a slave to a f'ing mouse). You've obviously spent the time researching your gear, and I think you've got a great idea for a setup.

As for the Avid Control Series, I can only comment on what I have. I use the Artist Artist Transport and I absolutely love it, primarily when working with Pro Tools. I don't love it as much when working with Sonar, though, because Sonar only makes a handful of assignable parameters available for it, whereas PT makes almost every parameter that you would possibly want to assign to a jogwheel available to it. My understanding is that Logic is more akin to PT in that regard, but I'm not a Logic user, so I'm not positive. But, the AT is excellent as a DAW transport controller and for navigating/zooming around. It integrates easily and, whether you're a complete newb or a seasoned pro, having the ability to quickly and easily navigate a project is a real plus for workflow. And, it's not like it's going to take you two weeks to figure it out - it's quite simple, actually and you'll probably be comfortable with it in a matter of days.

As for the other Avid controllers, I would highly suggest considering an iPad (if you don't already have one) and Neyrink V-Control Pro as an alternative. It's a $50 app that will pretty much do everything that the Avid Control and Mix will do, and then some (e.g., built-in remote desktop). Take a look at their website and watch some of their vids. Also, having an iPad will open up a host of other remote desktop apps (e.g., MIDI controllers like TouchOSC and Lemur) that you can add to your workflow.

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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik You nailed a lot of good points there, Trademark. First off, I don't see why people are freaking out here (well, actually, I do, and it's stupid), but the setup you are considering is not overboard by any means and it's still far simpler than what many of us learned on decades ago. You're looking at a good DAW, soundcard, monitors, hardware synth, software synth, and some hands-on peripherals (presumably because, like most musicians, you're more accustomed to working with tactile controls, rather than being a slave to a f'ing mouse). You've obviously spent the time researching your gear, and I think you've got a great idea for a setup. As for the Avid Control Series, I can only comment on what I have. I use the Artist Artist Transport and I absolutely love it, primarily when working with Pro Tools. I don't love it as much when working with Sonar, though, because Sonar only makes a handful of assignable parameters available for it, whereas PT makes almost every parameter that you would possibly want to assign to a jogwheel available to it. My understanding is that Logic is more akin to PT in that regard, but I'm not a Logic user, so I'm not positive. But, the AT is excellent as a DAW transport controller and for navigating/zooming around. It integrates easily and, whether you're a complete newb or a seasoned pro, having the ability to quickly and easily navigate a project is a real plus for workflow. And, it's not like it's going to take you two weeks to figure it out - it's quite simple, actually and you'll probably be comfortable with it in a matter of days. As for the other Avid controllers, I would highly suggest considering an iPad (if you don't already have one) and Neyrink V-Control Pro as an alternative. It's a $50 app that will pretty much do everything that the Avid Control and Mix will do, and then some (e.g., built-in remote desktop). Take a look at their website and watch some of their vids. Also, having an iPad will open up a host of other remote desktop apps (e.g., MIDI controllers like TouchOSC and Lemur) that you can add to your workflow.

You can't just come back in here after all this time and disagree. You must know that by now. Now get back in your corner.

And as far as being a musical 'genius' being a step up in terms of production, well good luck with that.

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Thanks cyrophonic, that was my intention with focusing so much on an ultimate hard control especially from the get go! I want to learn on an ultimate tool as opposed to a low end midi keyboard and then decide hey let's do that upgrade 1 year or however long... 3 years apparently till I churn something out (challenge accepted by the way), I think that is when I will complain about the avid messing up workflow as that is not what I got deep into logic with from the start!

Yes got an Ipad, was gonna hook it up with one of those Mac screen mounts so it looks all "tony starkish" and set up some midi controls with app of choice! Thanks for the suggestion, solid advise!

I know my musical ability stands for nothing just don't class me in the superstar wannabee who doesn't know what a DAW is and hasn't the faintest clue about even the basics of music!

What a fucking cluster this thread turned out to be....that's why i want people to PM diginut when shit like this happens.

Anyway, back on topic, I've skimmed through the thread and you'be been given some good advice from people on here but honestly, your mate's advice makes me think he doesn't have a clue.

Firstly, (and aside from my professional / personal hate for them) KRK's are an incredibly poor choice if money is no object, so anyone giving you advice about equipment, saying they "swear by them" means you need to take what they say with very large pinch of salt.

The reason people on here are telling you to go easy on equipment choices is that it's an incredibly personal choice based on very specific technical requirements, and most of these are fluid; they change as you develop your skills and figure out what the fuck you're doing;
Whether you like control surfaces and in what configuration, how much IO you need, whether you need Mic Pres, what software suits your personal taste best...even whether you're better off being completely in the box or a hybrid of the two or just use the daw for tracking.

I could go on and on (I usually do) but the point is that buying a shit load of gear when you're just starting out can be a royal waste of money. I don't know a single musician/ engineer/producer that has ever not made a serious purchasing mistake and lost some sum of money on a bad decision, so spunking your load when you're this green is a really bad idea.

there are however some things that will at least safeguard you.

1, Monitors. There's not really much harm buying a great set of monitors apart form you may not like that particular brands "sound". If money is no object then buy Focals or Barefoots - either are beautiful but be aware it will be 3-5 years of solid producing before you're hearing is at the level where you're taking full advantage of what they have to offer.

2, Beefy computer. More processing, as long as you;re buying smart is never a mad thing, just don't go voer the top.

3, Good reference headphones - always great to have a pair as a second reference and I, along with some of the composers I work with prefer to use them for sound design as they can have more detail and let you isolate discrete left and right channels.

Eveything else is subjective and requires very specific knowledge of what you're planned usage is.

For instance: control surfaces. I use Euphonix (now avid) MC5 deasks at work. They are the really standard for score now and expandable digital platforms where you get in to high track counts (200+ as a minimum). The Artist seris by Avid use EXACTLY the same faders and technology and they are a thing of beauty to use.

however, I would not own one at home as I hate the fact you only get 8 faders - I'd prefer to buy a control surface with at least 24 faders as that really is the point; having hands on control of the tracks you're working. I find it annoying to have to switch through banks to mix 40-60 odd tracks and in my mind, defeats the point of having a control surface.

Another instance: Audio interface. It's great to have 16/24/48 channels of pristine IO, but what if you only ever use 4 ins and 4 outs? I could afford any interface I want but I got a cheap Echo Audiofire 4 and it suits me just fine. Anything more would have been overkill based on my home setup. Do you need built in mic pres or are you going to get boutique / vintage pres? You're not even yet equipped or knowledgeable enough to try to answer that question.

Again, i could go on but there's certain things that are safe bets, and others that you'll have to develop in to.

My advice:

You're imac and logic (same as me) is a perfect starting point. combine that with some great monitors (focals or barefoots if money is no object, see my other threads if not) and you'll already have enough to keep you busy for 2 years. Logic has enough built in synths and FX for you to learn. Get a nice sounding but not over the top interface until you know your true IO requirements. Get the control surface if you really want and some good headphone but beyind that, you're pissing in to the wind.

If you want more specifics on the interface or cans, there's a million threads to search on here and then ask some spefific questions. The good news is, you're going around it the right way by asking the right questions, just don't think that money is going to burn a hole in your pocket. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord You can't just come back in here after all this time and disagree. You must know that by now. Now get back in your corner.

Sorry, sir. It won't happen again.

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Given that fact, I came to conclusion that my new interface will be the prism lyra.

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quote:

Originally posted by TradeMark Ok before the thread runs away... Note to self Nexus and KRK don't go over well here, friends will even be bashed

It's not that they don't go well here. They just DON'T go well. Don't take it so personally just because your friend whom you trust so dearly with your audio needs might not know shit about monitors.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I thought L4C was being fairly well behaved on this thread funnily enough, although I can say I've read every post.

That;s because Diginut deleted about 10 posts of bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Evolve140 It's not that they don't go well here. They just DON'T go well. Don't take it so personally just because your friend whom you trust so dearly with your audio needs might not know shit about monitors.

Well said. They are right at the bottom in terms of quality, sound and function when you put the alternatives in to the equation.