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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > The difficulty of simplicity
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

There's actually some good advice in this thread.

Richie's advice is spot on and one of the more fun ways to make a track.

We get too wrapped up in to looking at linear evolutions of a track on a linear sequencer - you end up making everything in blocks and before you know it, you're concentrating on filling layers, rather than workflow or better said, letting the work flow.

Tip #1

Get some 8 bar loops going, add a bunch of layers, do it quick, like you're sketching, until you have a part that drives and would be the peak of your track.

Now, route all your tracks to a sub master (even if you have them in sub groups already).

Record enable that sub master.

now play the peak time part and start breaking down the track from there by muting sections one or two or groups at a time. Fuck with their automation to wind them down.

Within a few attempts (and don't be afraid to back up if you make a mistake and continue from where you left off) you should have something that sound like a good end half of a track.

Now move all those regions, to say the 3 minute mark (or whatever makes sense in terms of bars given your BPM vs time).

Copy the "peak" region to bar 1.

Mute everything, enable record on your sub master, and start solo'ing tracks in sequence while recording it.

Built to that peak part.

Now, edit and arrange your track a little further (but be careful not to kill the spontaneity you might have captured by "over producing" it).

The beauty with doing it this may is that you're working backwards from a set point at which you've already judged happy with; There's no possibility of endlessly adding tracks during the composing part then realizing the track you built from the 4 beat bar is now 122 channels of layers all fighting for attention.

Why does this apply to wanting to make it more minimal in terms of elements? You make the "peak" part as minimal or as busy as you want, but it can't get MORE busy.

Tip #2

Listen to the masters of full, but minimal (in terms of layers) tracks.

Pryda.

I know I've mentioned this a bunch of times before but if you were to deconstruct his tracks in to individual elements, they sound like they just won't work discretely, but together it's a thing of genius. All his tracks consist of simple elements, automated incredibly well that just gel. Try focusing on simple arrangements from simple elements that don't need 1000 embellishments to work.

Dave Clark

Red 3 (1995) is literally 5 elements but that has destroyed more dancefloors than anyone cares to remember.

Rui Da Silva -

Touch Me or Fire. Simple, well layered tracks that rely on simple notes and perfect automation. See Pryda for more details.

Old Post Feb-18-2015 03:42 
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cryophonik
Boom shanka



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA USA



Touch them, fool.

Start with ideas, not loops.


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Old Post Feb-18-2015 04:55  United States
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Mr.Mystery
Static Guru



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Vantaa

quote:
Originally posted by cryophonik


Touch them, fool.

Start with ideas, not loops.

Even though I already have more ideas than I should?

Old Post Feb-18-2015 06:55  Finland
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Kthought
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Joshua Tree

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
now play the peak time part and start breaking down the track from there by muting sections one or two or groups at a time. Fuck with their automation to wind them down.


Damn boy you're on to something... Having a well defined peak idea first is crucial imho. If you decided to take the time to blow out an arrangement of soft, sloppy loops then its time wasted, trust me. there comes a point where you have something in the sequencer (or session view AL) where you can turn it up, close your eyes, and feel it. That's when you start arranging. I read that on this very forum when i was a kid.

Although trance music is known to be complex in sonic content, i don't think it should be any more complex than the main idea. Write the idea stems, then extrapolate the story of that idea, and use the daw to interpolate it creatively.

>TAA where we go to meetings and talk about how we've learned to shorten delay feedback and use moderate reverb tails only.

Old Post Feb-18-2015 08:19  United States
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cryophonik
Boom shanka



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA USA

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Even though I already have more ideas than I should?


Good ideas don't need to be supported by a bunch of filler/unnecessary complexity. Keep it simple by starting with ideas that can stand on their own, then only add and keep parts that contribute something substantial and toss anything that doesn't. This is day two of Composition 101. If you think you're already there, then what's the point if this thread?


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Last edited by cryophonik on Feb-18-2015 at 15:33

Old Post Feb-18-2015 15:24  United States
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Mr.Mystery
Static Guru



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Vantaa

quote:
Originally posted by cryophonik
Good ideas don't need to be supported by a bunch of filler/unnecessary complexity. Keep it simple by starting with ideas that can stand on their own, then only add and keep parts that contribute something substantial and toss anything that doesn't. This is day two of Composition 101. If you think you're already there, then what's the point if this thread?

What I'm trying to do here is stepping out of my comfort zone and do something I don't usually do. Feel free to keep your condescending remarks to yourself, if you don't see the point of the thread.

Old Post Feb-18-2015 16:24  Finland
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cryophonik
Boom shanka



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA USA

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
What I'm trying to do here is stepping out of my comfort zone and do something I don't usually do. Feel free to keep your condescending remarks to yourself, if you don't see the point of the thread.


Condescending? How is giving advice condescending? Jesus, dude, grow a fucking spine.

At the risk of making you break down and cry , why don't you post some of these awesome comfort zone ideas of yours - raw, with just piano, and let's have a real discussion about music, rather than a hypothetical one that gets your panties all wadded up? You want to talk music, then let's talk music, because everything else in this thread just seems to hurt your precious little feelings.


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Old Post Feb-18-2015 16:55  United States
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Mr.Mystery
Static Guru



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Vantaa

quote:
Originally posted by cryophonik
Condescending? How is giving advice condescending? Jesus, dude, grow a fucking spine.

At the risk of making you break down and cry , why don't you post some of these awesome comfort zone ideas of yours - raw, with just piano, and let's have a real discussion about music, rather than a hypothetical one that gets your panties all wadded up? You want to talk music, then let's talk music, because everything else in this thread just seems to hurt your precious little feelings.

Did I piss in your cereal or something? What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Old Post Feb-18-2015 17:27  Finland
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cryophonik
Boom shanka



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA USA

Not a damn thing. I was trying to offer you some solid advice for addressing some of the most fundamental issues that nearly artist faces, and you're the one who felt insulted by it (i.e., "condescending"). You responded in a similar manner to other people who have offered advice as well. Either accept the advice for what it is, or keep lashing out at people. I don't really care, but good luck.


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Old Post Feb-18-2015 17:40  United States
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Mr.Mystery
Static Guru



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Vantaa

quote:
Originally posted by cryophonik
Not a damn thing. I was trying to offer you some solid advice for addressing some of the most fundamental issues that nearly artist faces, and you're the one who felt insulted by it (i.e., "condescending"). You responded in a similar manner to other people who have offered advice as well. Either accept the advice for what it is, or keep lashing out at people. I don't really care, but good luck.

There's been plenty of helpful posts here. Raphie's and L4C's in particular.

I guess oneliners and name calling just doesn't seem particularily useful to me. Go figure.

Old Post Feb-18-2015 17:51  Finland
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cryophonik
Boom shanka



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA USA

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
There's been plenty of helpful posts here. Raphie's and L4C's in particular.

I guess oneliners and name calling just doesn't seem particularily useful to me. Go figure.


Really, "fool" hurt your feelings? C'mon, man, don't feed me that crap. You've been grumpy to just about everybody lately.

Sorry if my posts came across as condescending. And, my "make you cry" post was intended to just see what sort of response it would invoke (i.e., would you get defensive, or take it head on - music profs do this shit all time and it's very effective). Regardless, don't take it personally.

But, in all seriousness, you are not going to get the best advice until you post examples of what you're talking about. You sure as hell wouldn't go on to a photography forum and say "hey, I can't seem to get the exposure right on this photo I'm processing - what should I do?" without posting the photo and expect to get any meaningful advice, except for some general advice that everybody gives [i.e., like you've gotten here], some of which might hit the mark, but most of which doesn't. Where's the music? Quit dancing about architecture and show us where you're struggling.


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Old Post Feb-18-2015 18:17  United States
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TranceElevation
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2010
Location:

Mr.Mystery, you're very mysterious.


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Old Post Feb-18-2015 18:25 
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