occrider , you make some good points about most of us not experiencing someone close to us getting killed. However I do think I have some idea of what the thought process is because I have had my best freind hit with bullets, and he was literally an inch from dying.

Additinally the piss drunk guy was just an example. However I do belive each and every human life is worth just as much as any other one, and either way, if someone purposly killed someone they purposley killed someone. It's about the ends (the person being dead), not the means(motive, method etc.) Thats my opponion anyways.

Ok, you probably do have a better idea of loss or pain than most. But let me ask you this. If the guy who had wounded your friend had instead butchered his entire family in front of him to make him suffer then stabbed him 20 times until he bled to death would you still think the same way? There are a lot of twisted, sadistic criminals like that that are on death row for a reason.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Ok, you probably do have a better idea of loss or pain than most. But let me ask you this. If the guy who had wounded your friend had instead butchered his entire family in front of him to make him suffer then stabbed him 20 times until he bled to death would you still think the same way? There are a lot of twisted, sadistic criminals like that that are on death row for a reason.

I'd like to think that I wouldn't because thats what I've been preaching. In the case of my freind, I definatly hated the guy, but didn't want to kill him. If something liket that happened, I probably would feel different though. But like I said I cant make any hypothisise on that, seing as I've never expereinced anything quite like that.

quote:

[i][b] More money total is spent on prisoners than on people killed, but thats because there are far more people in jail, than killed each year. The price per person is much less for someone serving a jail sentence. If someone is sentenced to death, there are litterally thousands of ways to appeal it. So he _will_ live another 4+ years, and take your money. And during that time, he'll be wasting your tax dollars on huge legal battles with state sponsored lawyers.

gimme a number my friend, don't tell me its cheaper when u have to pay for healthcare, food and shelter, for a life sentence, that could be many many years.

Mizzz

quote:

Originally posted by mizzuno gimme a number my friend, don't tell me its cheaper when u have to pay for healthcare, food and shelter, for a life sentence, that could be many many years. Mizzz

What he's saying is true, but is a very poor point, as we could simply deny them the multitude of appeals they are now given and execution would instantaneously become more economically efficient. This would be nice, IMHO, because paying taxes to keep people alive who provide nothing in return is simply wasteful.

Unfortunately, in most situations, the death penalty is not appropriate, because it is irrevocable, whereas a false imprisonment can be corrected, at least to a degree. If we could be certain of guilt, such as in the case of a Hitler-like individual, then the death penalty would be appropriate, but for common criminals, such certainty is difficult to acquire, because their actions are reflected on a much smaller scale.

In an ideal world, the death penalty would be an ideal solution to many crimes. But in an ideal world, you wouldn't need it. For now, it ought to be reserved for only the most extreme circumstances, IMHO.

Cheers,

Arbiter

yea, gotta keep those who are falsly accused and have been executed in mind.
Good post man.

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I'm against the death penalty.

I won't go into a big long essay explaining my reasons, and I'm not going to argue with anyone that disagrees.

Basically, I just thing we should be aiming higher up on the ladder on the causes of the problems. There are some serious issues in society that could be solved to prevent the kind of crimes that warrant a death penalty.

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quote:

Originally posted by Vesa I'm against death penalty in all cases except terrorism and mass murder. Death penalty is brutal. It will also hurt the society that adopts it.

The snipers are a good example of a death penalty case, actually any person who commits murder is really IMO.

Yes the death penalty is brutal, but far less so than torture... but a good judge weighs the crime with the punishment, and gives cruel and unusual punishments for cruel and unusual crimes... Honestly, if they torture those two snipers with whips & beds of needles I'd say they had it coming, cause it certainly fits the hideous crime they committed. In America we dont have punishments strong enough for those types of crimes however. I'd say give them a real life Biblical Hell, but man has yet to build a biblical hell.

Edit : now that I think about it, if we as a species built the biblical hell, all crime would be reduced to near zero.

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quote:

Originally posted by occrider FYI the cost of putting someone to death is SIGNIFICANTLY more than it costs to put someone in jail for life. It may seem ridiculous but it's true given the costs of legal fees.

Unfortunately we have an out of control system of appeals in America. I've heard of cases that go through 10 appeals and some people on death row wont get executed till 2030. Appeals need better regulation, something like no more than 3 appeals.

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quote:

Originally posted by starglider "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Ok, this is about the stupidest thing I've seen... a great line from a great movie, but it is so flawed in this argument.

Golem did nothing wrong (they were referring to Golem following them in the Dwarf Mines in the movie LOTR), whereas the snipers murdered 10 people in cold blood.

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I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty, I won't go into too many details since I got into this discussion last march and I'd be repeating those thoughts. Some points however:

In the US being black increases your chance of being sentenced to death, I believe the number is 2.5 times more likely (I need to double check)..

In recent years nearly 90 death row inmates have been released outright thanks to DNA testing, some of those were only days away from death.

Formerly staunch supporter of the death penalty, Governor George Ryan of Illinois halted all death penalty executions after seeing how many people were being set free off death row thanks to DNA testing. He now regrets his support of the death penalty, and is working to stop it.

Proof that the death penalty works is not there, and if there isn't strong evidence to show it works, why then use it and take the risk of killing innocent people?

Does anyone think that life imprisonment is easy? Ask anyone thats spent even 2yrs in jail how they feel about life imprisonment and I'm sure you'll hear that its hell.

Anyways, if you want to read my thoughts, check out my replies in this thread:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...t=death+penalty

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quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter For now, it ought to be reserved for only the most extreme circumstances, IMHO.

Yeah I agree with you there. I think the death penalty should not be carried out for most of the time but only for criminals who have no moral conscience, no respect for human life and are not sorry for the serious crime they committed like those friggin terrorists and those two snipers.