Interestingly, the last two British samples on that page say it as /ɪˈɹæn/, which would be written "ih-ran," the second syllable rhyming with the past tense of "run."

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A Interestingly, the last two British samples on that page say it as /ɪˈɹæn/, which would be written "ih-ran," the second syllable rhyming with the past tense of "run."

Yeah, that's probably how I would say it. As a Northerner I tend to lapse into the flat "a" rather than the proper "ah" of received pronunciation.

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All I can say is that I'm fighting the urge to add the phonetic symbols next to the options

(And that I seriously don't know how I'd pronounce the word)

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quote:

Originally posted by Vector A I'm talking about phonology. "R" of Farsi is the alveolar tap. It is very different from the English "R," which is alveolar approximant. The closest English sound to Farsi "R" is the tapped "D" of a word like "bladder," i.e. at the beginning of an unstressed syllable. I'm talking about the actual sounds, not the superficial similarity in spelling. French "rat" and English "rat" mean the exact same thing and are spelled the exact same way. Doesn't mean they sound much alike.

I still don't get it. I've heard Persian people say Iran and there is no "d" sound in it.



its the same "R" that is used in arabic R = ر


I get it the t is silent in french when you say "rat" it actually sounds like "ra"

but there is no D sound when you say R = ر in arabic Or in farsi.

you roll it more, but you don't actually have a d sound to it.

if you could post a sound clip to what you are referring too (As i have done) maybe it would help get your point across better.


[ʔiːˈɾɑn]

not to be confused with :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_alveolar_stop

I'm not talking about the letters. It's totally irrelevant to my argument that for historical reasons the character representing the /ɾ/ pronounced in Persian is still considered "equivalent" to the "r" of the English alphabet.

You pointed to the Persian pronunciation as the correct one, and my point is that phonologically speaking, /ɾ/ is the same as the pronunciation of intervocalic, unstressed "d" (which is alveolar flap, not alveolar stop) in many varieties of English. And that sound is far from the sound that English speakers make when they say the letter "r." And that is why it would make zero sense to spell it "Iran" if your goal was to get people to pronounce it something like the Persian way.

Last edited by Vector A on Jul-29-2015 at 00:38

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper Yes. I'm not trolling you guys. So "IH" sounds like the "I" in India and not "E" ?

How the hell could 'Ih' sound like 'E' ???

I refuse to believe you're not trolling with this.

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quote:

Originally posted by Vector A I'm not talking about the letters. It's totally irrelevant to my argument that for historical reasons the character representing the /ɾ/ pronounced in Persian is still considered "equivalent" to the "r" of the English alphabet. You pointed to the Persian pronunciation as the correct one, and my point is that phonologically speaking, /ɾ/ is the same as the pronunciation of intervocalic, unstressed "d" (which is alveolar flap, not alveolar stop) in many varieties of English. And that sound is far from the sound that English speakers make when they say the letter "r." And that is why it would make zero sense to spell it "Iran" if your goal was to get people to pronounce it something like the Persian way.

Ok - not knowing anything about phonlogy and delving into it now, i see what your saying and it seems sensible.

thanks for that quick lesson



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_consonant

quote:

Originally posted by Lews How the hell could 'Ih' sound like 'E' ???

This wouldn't be unexpected. In parts of the US, as my memory has it, some people fail to distinguish between these sounds before "l", so that "fill" and "feel" sound the same, so "ih" would sound like "e" (or vice-versa) in these words for speakers in this area.

Having said this, you're the native speaker, so what do I know?

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It's the Southern pen-pin merger. The resulting sound actually ends up as neither of those vowels, though, instead becoming /piən/ (PEEun). Same diphthong as in standard American pronunciation of "reel."

This thread is reminding me how much I hated phonetics at university.

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I love this shit. But then I was never forced to take a class on it. Things are usually more fun that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A It's the Southern pen-pin merger. The resulting sound actually ends up as neither of those vowels, though, instead becoming /piən/ (PEEun). Same diphthong as in standard American pronunciation of "reel."

But you're really talking about a local accent, that would confuse most other English speakers, so it's not really a valid pronunciation at last in terms of general use of phonetics.