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Originally posted by Arbiter I still don't see it. If weaker genes are getting passed down, we can use this same technology to strengthen them and correct the problem.

Heres what I think though, so called 'weaker genes' now, may become stronger genes if the selective force changes. What if what is considered a weak gene today will help a person survive tomorrows disease.

Case in point. Sickle Cell anemia is caused by having two copies of a gene (HbS). If you are homozygous for HbS, you get sickle cell anemia. However, if you are heterozygous for HbS, you are practically immune to Malaria. Not bad for a weak gene.

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono oh-no, i did a 75 min presentation on eugenics last year in english.. this is an extreemly complicated area. some people dont want to alter any genetics. but then we can question, if we have the power to prevent things like genetic deffects, retardation, low iq, and even cells that control someone's ability to determine right from wrong (this includes genetic apathy to killing), then should we not use it? Would you seriously want your child to have a retardation or serious disease if you could prevent it? Would you want your child to be stupid, if they cells could be modified to increase their IQ? Perhapse premature balding is a family trait, and you could prevent it from being passed down to your child. you will eventually be able to 'customize' your children. eye colour, hair colour, gender, and even personality characteristics. Where do you draw the line?

Same thing with cloning.

The way I see it is that there is no such thing as perfect.

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Something just popped into my head hwile reading this thread.

Aren't all organisms driven to pass their genes off to the next generation? Thats why we see things such as mate competition, and strategies for sperm competition, and infanticide, and things like that.

On one hand, we can just make clones of ourselves, with offspring that are 100% related to us. Wouldn't that be favorable? On the other hand, if we greatly modify our children's genes like customizing a new computer, we wouldn't really be passing on our genes would we? They genetically wouldn't be related to us as much as if we just left the genes the way they are.

It is our biological instinct to pass on our genes, and maybe that will stop us from going through a DNA catalogue and customizing our kids.

Anyways, I don't think we should tamper too much with our genes. Mother nature works in funny ways, and she has billions of years of wisdom ahead of us. You never know when that unfavourable gene may suddenly become favourable later...

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I've seen some comments on my post, but also reactions which i subscribe, so I won't go in to that. But I've seen some lines that i just can't agree with...

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Some people being born with Down Syndrome is natural... very unfortunate, but not the end of the world. For the sake of argument, lets say we can prevent this. I'm not objecting. On a religious level it raises issues, but I don't think its too big a deal. There's nothing wrong with medicine or organ donations, so this shouldn't be much different. But it becomes a big deal when we start the abuse... and it will come, I can guarantee that. Do you believe that we should risk our world to prevent a few people from genetic defects?

This is true, and this is also the point i tried to make my previous post; weaker genes passing on to the next generation is a bad thing, because of the whole thing with deseases etc as I said before. But changing the selective force? what do you imagine by that? the current selective force now is roughly spoken the preference of people for mates with money. In Holland de discussion is on about letting a couple with the Down-syndrome have kids... I say it's not our job to say of someone can get kids or not, but it's a good example of what will happen if these weaker organisms keep holding up in a population. If the ill and down-syndromers grow in number, it will cost the society a increasing sum of money, wich will eventually undermine the population in more basic ways, which brings the population in danger. If there was a selective force as it was ment to be, people with Down or ill ones would leave the group and die, without getting offspring. The survival of the fittest. But when we give every human a same chance, the percentage of the weak grows, and it becomes a danger for society. So i say don't give everybody the same chance. So stop genetically engineering babies...and the thing said about parents not wanting to modify their offsrping is crap, because parents don't give a shit about their 'genes', most people don't even know they have them or what they do, metaforically spoken. I hope I made myself a but clearer...

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Originally posted by DjSuez This is true, and this is also the point i tried to make my previous post; weaker genes passing on to the next generation is a bad thing, because of the whole thing with deseases etc as I said before. But changing the selective force? what do you imagine by that? the current selective force now is roughly spoken the preference of people for mates with money. In Holland de discussion is on about letting a couple with the Down-syndrome have kids... I say it's not our job to say of someone can get kids or not, but it's a good example of what will happen if these weaker organisms keep holding up in a population. If the ill and down-syndromers grow in number, it will cost the society a increasing sum of money, wich will eventually undermine the population in more basic ways, which brings the population in danger. If there was a selective force as it was ment to be, people with Down or ill ones would leave the group and die, without getting offspring. The survival of the fittest. But when we give every human a same chance, the percentage of the weak grows, and it becomes a danger for society. So i say don't give everybody the same chance. So stop genetically engineering babies...and the thing said about parents not wanting to modify their offsrping is crap, because parents don't give a shit about their 'genes', most people don't even know they have them or what they do, metaforically spoken. I hope I made myself a but clearer...

I don't understand... is your comment directed to me? All I was trying to say was that preventing disease, genetic defects, etc. is ok, but that once we have the ability to do that it won't stop there, and we'll abuse the technology. And this abuse will have DRASTIC side effects.

Plus, survival of the fittest becomes a non-issue anyways because the "weaker" members of society will become "strong"... like everyone else on the planet. I don't really understand why you brought that up, unless it wasn't directed at me?

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Plus, survival of the fittest becomes a non-issue anyways because the "weaker" members of society will become "strong"... like everyone else on the planet. I don't really understand why you brought that up, unless it wasn't directed at me?

it wasn't only a reaction on you, the part about the survival of the fittest was related to the fact that Selection is almost gone in our society, at least the selection on physical area. Selection made 'survival of the fittest' possible, and without it, de weak part of the population grows.

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I don't understand... is your comment directed to me? All I was trying to say was that preventing disease, genetic defects, etc. is ok, but that once we have the ability to do that it won't stop there, and we'll abuse the technology. And this abuse will have DRASTIC side effects.

And what i'm saying is that I want the technology not used at all...it may sound egoistic and stupid, but for the survival of our world it's necessary. Of course I won't like it if i get a genetically curable desease, and they won't cure me, but for the sake of the population, it's better.

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