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Originally posted by Lews A religion cannot do anything, it's an idea. People, however, can interpret that idea in good ways (the university of Baghdad) or in bad ways (this video).

I don't understand why this keeps being brought up. "don't blame the religion, blame the people!" By blaming a religion you're automatically blaming the people that made it and those who lives by the rules they chose to take from it. No one believes religion is an evil entity by itself.

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Originally posted by Lews Well, even Buddhists can be bonkers and violent, too... Look at Myranmar the past few years - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22356306

I think Buddhists hate Muslims more than sikhs.

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Originally posted by Redd By blaming a religion you're automatically blaming the people that made it and those who lives by the rules they chose to take from it. No one believes religion is an evil entity by itself.

This is what you think, but by blaming a religion you're blaming ideas and nothing is getting accomplished, you end up adding more fuel to the fire and inciting intolerance.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I lived next to golders green in London (so you know what I'm talking about) and I live very close to a big orthodox community here. There's certainly no violence (it would not be tolerated here) but I see the rampant suppression of women every single day, forced to wear wigs and cover themselves, have 5 kids in the early 20's, married off to much older (I mean elderly in some cases) men all to conform to yet another religion that has one set of rules for them, and another for men.

Then you're highly misinformed. The women are not "forced" to wear wigs or do anything they don't want to - they choose to because modesty is part of orthodox Judaism. (Just like most men in orthodox communities choose to wear black pants and a white collared shirt/suit). No one "forces" anything upon anyone in the orthodox communities I've lived in and visited.

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Me and the missus met a local orthodox businessman here just a few weeks ago. He shook my hand then refused to shake my wife's hand for religious reasons. Needless so say that meeting went no further.

It's part of rabbinical halacha, going back to the commandment not to covet another's wife. It's also not permitted for a Jewish man to be in a room with another woman, if it's just the two of them. These are all basically rabbinical "fences" built in order to keep one from committing a sin. To make an analogy - watching porn is technically not prohibited by the Torah, but wasting seed is - so a rabbinical law was instituted that prohibits watching, as well - a "fence" in order not to sin.

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Sure, it's not burning people in the street for insulting some silly book, but there's plenty of other things that happen in the name of your religion that are abhorrent.

Like what?

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You can say "what you think you see" but what you see is three guys chasing and then unloading guns at point blank range in to teenagers. They confirmed it's a pair of scissors. It was not that old chesnut again, a "knife attack" (ever notice how now when anyone gets show at a checkpoint, it's a "knife attack"). You should really just say it's awful and disgusting to see someone do that to what is clearly a teenage girl and her even younger sister (who clearly looks liek a child) and take it on the chin, but instead you offer hypocritical explanations as to why they didn't have time to assess the situation.

I don't know what you see and where you get your misinformation from, but it was indeed a knife (scissor) attack. Does the video portray something that even closely resembles an "argument?"

Read the article I linked if you want further evidence. Note that that girl's older brother was accidentally killed by a rubber bullet during a riot not long ago. Coincidence, eh? Much to her surprise, however, it was an older Arab man she tried to kill, confusing him for a Jew.

Last edited by AlphaStarred on Feb-01-2016 at 18:08

she was found to be innocent two days later.

Yeah, and she had learning difficulties, didn't she?

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Originally posted by Marcus Summers I think Buddhists hate Muslims more than sikhs.

It would be weird if it were not the case: Most Sikhs live in Punjab (close to Pakistan). Most Buddhists live either to the North (Tibet) or to the East of India (Burma, Thailand), so there's little opportunity for them to clash with one another

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Last edited by Lira on Feb-01-2016 at 18:17

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Then you're highly misinformed. The women are not "forced" to wear wigs or do anything they don't want to - they choose to because modesty is part of orthodox Judaism. (Just like most men in orthodox communities choose to wear black pants and a white collared shirt/suit). No one "forces" anything upon anyone in the orthodox communities I've lived in and visited. It's part of rabbinical halacha, going back to the commandment not to covet another's wife. It's also not permitted for a Jewish man to be in a room with another woman, if it's just the two of them. These are all basically rabbinical "fences" built in order to keep one from committing a sin. To make an analogy - watching porn is technically not prohibited by the Torah, but wasting seed is - so a rabbinical law was instituted that prohibits watching, as well - a "fence" in order not to sin. Like what? I don't know what you see and where you get your misinformation from, but it was indeed a knife (scissor) attack. Does the video portray something that even closely resembles an "argument?" Read the article I linked if you want further evidence. Note that that girl's older brother was accidentally killed by a rubber bullet during a riot not long ago. Coincidence, eh? Much to her surprise, however, it was an older Arab man she tried to kill, confusing him for a Jew.

I'm not really going to bother taking this much further because there's no arguing with someone that believes fairly takes from a book that is sveral years old to be literal truth.

It's arguing with someone that would prefer to be wrong and keep their faith than ever accept that their fable may not exist. You can fight that type of delusion.

What I will say is that you're just as misguided as Muslim men who say "but our women want to wear the Hajib or Burkka, it shows their love for god blah blah blah". No it fucking doesn't. It shows that man has control over women and to avoid men acting on their profane thoughts, women have to cover themselves. All the other excuses are just window dressing for bigots to make themselves feel better under the thin veil of "religion".

Same for the reason of men not being allowed to touch women. Because of man's incessant desire to sin, a woman must not touch her, she cannot shake hands with him, forbidden by religion etc. So the Women is not allowed physical contact with another man for fear the man may sin. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

As for the attack, read whatever spin you on it, but the bottom line and most disgusting thing is, what you're not doing;

you up a video of muslims killing a woman and you bang on about how disgusting and evil they are.

I up a video of Jews unloading their clips in to teenage girls, in to their heads, at point blank range, and go back for more, even when they are lying lifeless on the floor, one of them was clearly holding nothing and your response is:

Palestinian Bitches had it coming.

(brother was killed by a rubber bullet so she must have been a terrorist (says who? on both assertions?)/ She had a pair of scissors so she needed to be pumped full of lead, Bicth was crazy).

Where is your G_D now? Because he certainly doesn't give you a lick of compassion.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I'm not really going to bother taking this much further because there's no arguing with someone that believes fairly takes from a book that is sveral years old to be literal truth.

Yet again you digress, posting something that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument.

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What I will say is that you're just as misguided as Muslim men who say "but our women want to wear the Hajib or Burkka, it shows their love for god blah blah blah". No it fucking doesn't.

Ok, you're arguing with someone that had the experience of living in a secular society and in a religious, orthodox one. The fact that you think it doesn't "show their love for god" is not only somewhat irrelevant, but is also an opinion. If a woman tells you she prefers to dress modestly, you'll tell her she's wrong? Ridiculous.

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It shows that man has control over women and to avoid men acting on their profane thoughts, women have to cover themselves.

Again, there's no "control" aspect (there is in Islam, but not in Judaism) and women don't have to cover themselves if they don't want to. Plenty of Jewish girls going back to their religous roots and living or sojourning in orthodox communities who don't cover themselves at all. Nobody's trying to control or even disparage them.

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Same for the reason of men not being allowed to touch women. Because of man's incessant desire to sin, a woman must not touch her, she cannot shake hands with him, forbidden by religion etc. So the Women is not allowed physical contact with another man for fear the man may sin. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

It's more of men's incessant desire to fuck, a desire women share, as well. To fuck another's spouse is considered a sin in Judaism, hence the precautions. I'm not sure what you find hard to understand here.

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As for the attack, read whatever spin you on it, but the bottom line and most disgusting thing is, what you're not doing; you up a video of muslims killing a woman and you bang on about how disgusting and evil they are. I up a video of Jews unloading their clips in to teenage girls, in to their heads, at point blank range, and go back for more, even when they are lying lifeless on the floor, one of them was clearly holding nothing and your response is: Palestinian Bitches had it coming. (brother was killed by a rubber bullet so she must have been a terrorist (says who? on both assertions?)/ She had a pair of scissors so she needed to be pumped full of lead, Bicth was crazy).

"They" are lying lifeless on the floor? Uh, no. One of them was actually taken to a hospital and is being treated by *gasp* Jews.

And yeah, if someone is trying to kill someone else with a knife/scissor/gun/etc. they should be fucking stopped, whether with a gun or something else. Get the fuck outta here. I'm surprised you're still comparing an actual self-defense incidence to one where a woman who was falsely accused of burning a book and thereafter brutally murdered by countless men. A bit of a "disproportionate reponse," no?

I'm just curious, where did you get your misinformation that it wasn't an attack, but rather an "argument" that happened there? I'd love to see the source, please.

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Where is your G_D now? Because he certainly doesn't give you a lick of compassion.

Huh?

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Yet again you digress, posting something that has absolutely nothing to do with the argument.

Wat? how does not

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Ok, you're arguing with someone that had the experience of living in a secular society and in a religious, orthodox one. The fact that you think it doesn't "show their love for god" is not only somewhat irrelevant, but is also an opinion. If a woman tells you she prefers to dress modestly, you'll tell her she's wrong? Ridiculous. Again, there's no "control" aspect (there is in Islam, but not in Judaism) and women don't have to cover themselves if they don't want to. Plenty of Jewish girls going back to their religous roots and living or sojourning in orthodox communities who don't cover themselves at all. Nobody's trying to control or even disparage them. It's more of men's incessant desire to fuck, a desire women share, as well. To fuck another's spouse is considered a sin in Judaism, hence the precautions. I'm not sure what you find hard to understand here.

But you know it's not about their burning desire to "dress modestly". You can do that without a uniform.

I think it shows man's need impress his religion on others and in this case women. Man's "desire to fuck" as you put it is so strong that the women have to cover up, wear wigs, not show any flesh etc, but no, it's all because Orthodox women just want to show god their love and dress modestly

What happens if it's really hot outside and they want to just wear a t-shirt and shorts? Oh snap. can't because of Jewish mens men's "incessant desire to fuck". Too bad, get the potato sack on bitch.

As I said, no helping those who don't want to challenge blind faith from a book thousands of years old. (you do get that it's man's problem, not the women's, if he can't control the schlong right?).

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred "They" are lying lifeless on the floor? Uh, no. One of them was actually taken to a hospital and is being treated by *gasp* Jews. And yeah, if someone is trying to kill someone else with a knife/scissor/gun/etc. they should be fucking stopped, whether with a gun or something else. Get the fuck outta here. I'm surprised you're still comparing an actual self-defense incidence to one where a woman who was falsely accused of burning a book and thereafter brutally murdered by countless men. A bit of a "disproportionate response," no?

Again, the complete lack of any disgust is what I find amazing with you as a "man of god". Doesn't your god teach compassion or is that only for the Jewish in your eyes?

Again, it doesn't matter if she was chanting "Death to jews!" (she wasn't). The one with, *danger* a pair of scissors was a 16 year old girl. You can see that from her slight build and height. the other, much smaller and running scared, has NOTHING in her hands and is just trying to get away.

You can't dispute that. No way around it.

And they're literally assassinated with taps to the head.

Now this is how Non-pussies deal with attacks, and this guy aint holding a pair of scissors lol



Police have nothing more than pepper spray and handcuffs, one woman officer one man and no one hurt.

So please. Regale us as to how that 16 year and 13 year old girl had it coming? Tell me your tales of a revenged brother killed by a rubber bullet, enthrall us with your yarns of danger posed by teenage girls with scissors.

But no, justified killing right? She attacked someone earlier with scissors so underaged arab bitches had it coming (and it kept coming once their still bodies hit the floor).

Just out of curiosity, what gun does the Jesuit god prefer?

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Originally posted by DJ RANN As I said, no helping those who don't want to challenge blind faith from a book thousands of years old. (you do get that it's man's problem, not the women's, if he can't control the schlong right?).

Who are "those," by the way? Because I don't believe in blind faith, either.

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Again, the complete lack of any disgust is what I find amazing with you as a "man of god". Doesn't your god teach compassion or is that only for the Jewish in your eyes?

Once again, you're assuming how I feel about the incident without actually knowing. Why? Of course I'm appalled by the whole event, and it's unfortunate that one was shot dead, but again - WTF is a little girl doing with scissors trying to stab old men to death? I don't have compassion for knife/scissor wielding psychopathic murderers. Do you? Or does the fact that she's a young girl completely dismiss what she was trying to do? The man she repeatedly stabbed also had to be treated in the hospital. You still think this arose out of some sort of "argument?" Are you that blind to what's happening in Israel? Once again, I ask you for the source of your misinformation, if you please.

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And they're literally assassinated with taps to the head.

I've already told you one was being treated at a Jewish hospital. Are you hard of reading?

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So please. Regale us as to how that 16 year and 13 year old girl had it coming? Tell me your tales of a revenged brother killed by a rubber bullet, enthrall us with your yarns of danger posed by teenage girls with scissors.

Putting words into my mouth seems to be a consistent pattern of yours. Pray tell me where I wrote "they had it coming?"

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But no, justified killing right?

Justified self-defense. I'm actually interested in asking you a question. The various terrorists engaging in daily knife attacks - what do you think they'll do if/when they survive an attack? Think they'll just call it quits and become God-fearing, peaceful Muslims? I'd love to know.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Who are "those," by the way? Because I don't believe in blind faith, either.

Correct if wrong, but you live based on a code of morality and belief in a book that is thousands of years old, been revised more times than anyone can predict, was written in a language that has changed beyond recognition during that period but best of all, we have no idea where it actually came from in the first place.

I'd say that's more blind than Stevie Wonder.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Once again, you're assuming how I feel about the incident without actually knowing. Why? Of course I'm appalled by the whole event, and it's unfortunate that one was shot dead.

Mission accomplished because that's the first time you've said anything about it being awful or a horrific thing to happen to a little girl, and it took you pages of flaming to get there.

So it's not an "assuming" when you repeatedly point out something evil to someone and all they do is excuse the actions,

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred but again - WTF is a little girl doing with scissors trying to stab old men to death? I don't have compassion for knife/scissor wielding psychopathic murderers. Do you? Or does the fact that she's a young girl completely dismiss what she was trying to do? The man she repeatedly stabbed also had to be treated in the hospital. You still think this arose out of some sort of "argument?" Are you that blind to what's happening in Israel? Once again, I ask you for the source of your misinformation, if you please.

Darn, spoke too soon lol. Again, watch that video of a real Knife wielding GROWN MAN actively trying to attack police (and telling them he's going to kill them). Two police officers managed to subdue him with nothing more than pepper spray, and he got mental treatment.

Still can't see the difference here? Big guy with knife activey trying to attack someone gets pepper sprayed and subdued. Little girls with scissors running away get shot to death.

And by the way, it was the unarmed 13 year old who was assassinated, NOT the girl with the scissors.

And before you keep defending it, you should realize that after massive international uproar over this, and the fact the government were going to turn a blind eye, it looks like the police officer is finally being charged.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred I've already told you one was being treated at a Jewish hospital. Are you hard of reading?

Well done, she somehow survived and they're treating her. That's what civilized countries do, ya know?

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Putting words into my mouth seems to be a consistent pattern of yours. Pray tell me where I wrote "they had it coming?"

Because until the post above, you had not once acknowledged that it was even excessive force, let alone murder. Every time I brought it up you were:

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Note that that girl's older brother was accidentally killed by a rubber bullet during a riot not long ago. Coincidence, eh? Much to her surprise, however, it was an older Arab man she tried to kill, confusing him for a Jew.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred To me, it does look like a knife attack, and I don't think the Israeli police had the time to stop and ask questions, seeing her like that (of course due to the near-daily knife attacks in Israel, and whatnot).

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred And I'm just curious - where is the factual evidence that the girl was trying to protect her sister, rather than try and knife another Jew?

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred And yeah, if someone is trying to kill someone else with a knife/scissor/gun/etc. they should be fucking stopped, whether with a gun or something else. Get the fuck outta here. I'm surprised you're still comparing an actual self-defense incidence

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred I'm just curious, where did you get your misinformation that it wasn't an attack, but rather an "argument" that happened there?

That's the sum total of your responses. Not a lick of compassion or even a consideration that they killed/critically injured two teenage girls, one of which was unarmed.

Now it's a different tune, but only after pages and pages of saying they had it coming, and even then you had to qualify it.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Justified self-defense. I'm actually interested in asking you a question. The various terrorists engaging in daily knife attacks - what do you think they'll do if/when they survive an attack? Think they'll just call it quits and become God-fearing, peaceful Muslims? I'd love to know.

Actually it's not justified self defense. On the subject of why he's bringing charges against the police officer, Israel's prosecutor general said that lethal force is NOT legal against Terrorist unless they are in the act. After reviewing the video, he decided lethal force was not justified, that the girls were running away and "posed no immediate threat".

By the way, he's being charged attempted murder for the older girl - charges are still being reviewed for the younger girl that dies which means even if he get's off the first charges under a self defense plea, he's going down for murder on the other girl.

There's no such thing as pre-emptive lethal force as they "might attack again" as you're suggesting. The death penalty for terrorism was overwhelmingly voted down by Israeli parliament last year. So no, nothing "justified" about killing someone on the basis that you reckon they might attack again (that's what prison is for).

So you really should get your facts straight and as I said, being a man of god, show a little more empathy. religion is meant to be about forgiveness and understanding right?

Knife attacks in Israel are cowardly terrorism, that's not up for debate, but this unwarranted and ill formed response was no better and you need to take the blinkers off.

Last edited by DJ RANN on Feb-03-2016 at 20:50

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Correct if wrong, but you live based on a code of morality and belief in a book that is thousands of years old, been revised more times than anyone can predict, was written in a language that has changed beyond recognition during that period but best of all, we have no idea where it actually came from in the first place.

You're wrong. On several points. I was living "by the book" because of what I was experiencing in my daily life by learning from the book and by doing mitzvos. The Torah has never been revised and the original Hebrew language has never changed. I don't know where you're getting this from, but you're highly misinformed.

Also, "blind faith" is when you simply believe - I believe because of my personal experiences. I can elaborate if you're really interested.

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Mission accomplished because that's the first time you've said anything about it being awful or a horrific thing to happen to a little girl, and it took you pages of flaming to get there.

Not flaming, but rather pointing out the repeated inaccuracies of your posts and misinformation. You still haven't sent me the source to it, by the way.

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So it's not an "assuming" when you repeatedly point out something evil to someone and all they do is excuse the actions,

So the girls trying to kill the old man wasn't "evil?" You still failed to respond to all the questions I've asked you.

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Again, watch that video of a real Knife wielding GROWN MAN actively trying to attack police (and telling them he's going to kill them). Two police officers managed to subdue him with nothing more than pepper spray, and he got mental treatment. Still can't see the difference here? Big guy with knife activey trying to attack someone gets pepper sprayed and subdued. Little girls with scissors running away get shot to death.

I see your point, and I'm not saying it couldn't have been handled differently - but the fact is, they were trying to kill the old man, but failed and put him in the hospital, still.

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And before you keep defending it, you should realize that after massive international uproar over this, and the fact the government were going to turn a blind eye, it looks like the police officer is finally being charged.

No, it seems you're the one defending terrorist knife attacks. Oh wait, it was scissors this time. Sorry. And yeah, the police officer is getting charged because in Israel there is a judicial system that punishes Jews, as well. In Gaza they celebrate every single terrorist as a martyr, instead. Spot the difference?

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Well done, she somehow survived and they're treating her. That's what civilized countries do, ya know?

Indeed. I wonder when was the last time the Palestinians treated a Jew in Gaza.

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Now it's a different tune, but only after pages and pages of saying they had it coming, and even then you had to qualify it.

Show me where I said they had it coming. I'm asking you for the second time now.

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Actually it's not justified self defense. On the subject of why he's bringing charges against the police officer, Israel's prosecutor general said that lethal force is NOT legal against Terrorist unless they are in the act. After reviewing the video, he decided lethal force was not justified, that the girls were running away and "posed no immediate threat".

I agree lethal force was not justified, but self-defense was. They took it a bit too far in this case and are probably rightfully being judged. I ask you again - would you say the same thing for terrorists being judged in Gaza? They hail them as martyrs and give out candy on the streets to kids when some terrorist kills some innocent Jews. So you want to talk about savagery and justice?

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There's no such thing as pre-emptive lethal force as they "might attack again" as you're suggesting. The death penalty for terrorism was overwhelmingly voted down by Israeli parliament last year. So no, nothing "justified" about killing someone on the basis that you reckon they might attack again (that's what prison is for).

That's not what I suggested. I implied that what if the perpetrator runs away after his successful/unsuccessful knife attack. What do you think he'll do afterwards? Obviously if they can put them jail instead of killing them, it's an option.

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So you really should get your facts straight

What facts are those?

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and as I said, being a man of god, show a little more empathy.

Again, you have no idea on my opinion on this matter except for what I alraedy stated - it's unfortunate they had to die. Your baseless assumption is that I think "they had it coming." What I truly think is that it's very unfortunate that so many Muslims are brainwashed since being little kids to hate Jews. The brainwash goes further now, instructing them to knife any Jew they can, and that it's somehow a glorious act in the eyes of Allah.

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religion is meant to be about forgiveness and understanding right?

Yup.

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Knife attacks in Israel are cowardly terrorism, that's not up for debate, but this unwarranted and ill formed response was no better and you need to take the blinkers off.

Which unwarranted and ill-formed response was that? The only thing unwarranted and ill-informed was your misinformation, not only about the scissor attack, but about Judaism and me, as well. Because I posted a video about an innocent woman being lynched, you immediately - as is your custom - claim I hate all Muslims and feel compelled to show a completely incomparable incident with a fugaze story. I'm still curious how the video you posted is in the least bit relevant to this thread. If you're trying to point out to me that not all Jews are perfect, yes I can see that. We make mistakes. Comparing the unjustified lethal force against a knife/scissor attack to a woman who was falsely accused of burning a Quran and brutally murdered by countless people is as ludicrous as it gets.

The only relevant post you could've made in this thread is if a similar incident occurred in Israel or elsewhere. Then you'd actually stay on topic, for once.

Last edited by AlphaStarred on Feb-03-2016 at 21:55