i actually enjoy shaming people with bad musical, fashion, food tastes. making them feel inferior brings out the best in me. i was never really big on trance i only signed on to this website because i thought it was train addict .com . i used to like trains

quote:

Originally posted by Alex I don't know if it's simple, actually. I still love music, and am always on the lookout for good stuff, but I just don't get bothered by what I used to get bothered by.

I don't mean finding new good stuff, but rather not be bothered by petty nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred I don't mean finding new good stuff, but rather not be bothered by petty nonsense.

Oh ok.

Yeah.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow I spend my time enjoying the music I like instead of bitterly complaining that someone sold out. I don't use music to enhance my status or identity. It's the highest form of ignorance as a spectator to presume your opinion or taste has any significance outside of yourself. You just come off as an arrogant self important ass.

Maybe if I ever saw you make a single post about music I'd buy into this self-congratulation. You spend most of your time on TA pulling down other people and psycho-analysing their faults while revealing as little as possible about your own life, so this idea you're some ego-less higher being is most amusing.

You also seem to miss the point spectacularly, willfully even. The irritation with someone selling out is that someone whose music you love no longer makes the thing that gives you so much joy. You can spew about as much hand-wringing about "Well, maybe they enjoy making 3 minute pop songs" as you like, but like RANN says, it's pure naivety. It's exceptionally clear when it's done calculatingly, and it's heart-breaking because it's such a shit reason to deprive you of great music.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Maybe if I ever saw you make a single post about music I'd buy into this self-congratulation. You spend most of your time on TA pulling down other people and psycho-analysing their faults while revealing as little as possible about your own life, so this idea you're some ego-less higher being is most amusing.

You have a point, although I don't think his intention was to compare egos.

Militant music is where it's at, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex I used to get all militant about EDM and other music and throw out the sell-out bombs and all that crap, but I grew up and realized that there are about a billion different artists out there and if I don't like the direction of an artist I previously enjoyed, no biggie, I find new stuff to enjoy.

I don't know. This just seems a variation of the thin-skinned logic that nobody should ever criticise an artist for anything, that only positive opinions should be allowed.

I don't really care if I'm perceived as militant or snobbish. There's music I love and music I hate and I'm not censoring that to protect the feelings of precious souls in cyberspace. Plenty of people line up to kick music that I love. It's happened plenty of times on this forum and you'll never see me crying about it. I'll disagree, I'll defend something, but I won't ever try and censor the very act of criticism.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

To get away from the meta-critic debate, as much fun as I find that, I actually would consider it fair to say that Tiesto was relatively 'underground' (in a sense) 1995-1998. I'm a big fan of the Guardian Angel mix comps he put out in those years - the programming is rather poor, but the track selection is quite good. There's a lot of stuff on those mixes that you'd be hard pressed to find on other mix comps. I believe this was the time he was working in a record store, before he had many (any?) international residencies. It's really around 97/98 when he left Basic Beat and started up Black Hole that his work starts to become much more commercial/popular, according to my reading of events.

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Quarantine Classics Brunello di Montalcino (In Transit) Edition [Progressive Classics] (August 2020)
Quarantine Classics - Puligny-Montrachet Edition [Progressive Classics] (April 2020)
What Is Progressive Anyways? [Progressive House Classics] (November 2019)

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't know. This just seems a variation of the thin-skinned logic that nobody should ever criticise an artist for anything, that only positive opinions should be allowed.

You seemed to have missed his point entirely.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred You seemed to have missed his point entirely.

No, that's clearly his underlying attitude. You wouldn't consider frustration with an artist's stylistic devolution to be something negative unless you perceive it to be "militant" - an attack, in other words, something threatening. The subtext here is clear, which is why IGK derives some disparaging character judgement from something as simple as noting an artist is now in it for the money. People are objecting because they feel this criticism of artists is also in some way a criticism of taste, a way of attacking or judging others. That's what this is all about.

I don't consider "Well, there's plenty more fish in the sea! Just listen to something else!" a worthwhile rebuttal to the points I've made prior. Fair enough if you can just pick up and drop stuff like that, but I think a big part of being a music fan is getting obsessed with stuff, getting passionately into it. And if you've ever gone to see a DJ you previously loved and witnessed them play a set of pure dogshit, wasting your money, your night out, your pent-up excitement... try telling yourself "Oh well, I'll just listen to someone else!" in that moment.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by Lews To get away from the meta-critic debate, as much fun as I find that, I actually would consider it fair to say that Tiesto was relatively 'underground' (in a sense) 1995-1998. I'm a big fan of the Guardian Angel mix comps he put out in those years - the programming is rather poor, but the track selection is quite good. There's a lot of stuff on those mixes that you'd be hard pressed to find on other mix comps. I believe this was the time he was working in a record store, before he had many (any?) international residencies. It's really around 97/98 when he left Basic Beat and started up Black Hole that his work starts to become much more commercial/popular, according to my reading of events.

You're right.
He started dj-ing in 1984, three evenings a week. Disco back then. He still knows where he came from, cleaning the toilets after he dj-ed in the club. So before trance he played other genres for over 10 years.
His commercial breakthrough was after Innercity at 20th February 1999. Even in Holland Tiesto wasn't very known. He actually was 'discovered' by Lars Holte from Norway which is a nice story.
Tiesto made 500 copies of his first Forbidden Paradise compilation with his phone number at the back because nobody wanted to release it. So he started his label with Arny Bink. Then Lars Holte called as he wanted 10,000 copies of the album. He sold all of them in Norway within a month.

Tiesto met Lars Holte again after 12 years last month after winning a Dutch award: part is in English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...Q3laqSryfY#t=94

I never blamed him for leaving trance as he just wants to be at the top whatever he thinks that top is. I also never got the impression he isn't liking what he's doing and money is the only drive. Not that I care that much if it was though.

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Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No, that's clearly his underlying attitude.

I don't think so, but perhaps he'll reply.

quote:

People are objecting because they feel this criticism of artists is also in some way a criticism of taste, a way of attacking or judging others. That's what this is all about.

I don't know what people are objecting, but Alex seemed simply to make a casual observation - IGK was making a subjective observation about your character - not about taste, as far as I can tell. I certainly don't care what artists you criticize - or don't, for that matter - and I doubt Alex cares, either. I don't think that was the point being made here.

quote:

I don't consider "Well, there's plenty more fish in the sea! Just listen to something else!" a worthwhile rebuttal to the points I've made prior.

Again, you seem to think Alex is arguing with you, but he wasn't.

quote:

Fair enough if you can just pick up and drop stuff like that, but I think a big part of being a music fan is getting obsessed with stuff, getting passionately into it.

I used to be more passionate about music when I was younger, now it's just something I like - if I don't, I don't listen to it - there's been far too many artists by now that have either "sold out" or moved on to producing in other genres, which, granted is sometimes a shame - I agree - but it's gotten to be the rule, rather than the exception, lately, so I don't make a fuss about it. And honestly, music isn't that important in my life that I wax all emotional when a dj or producer no longer plays the style I'm interested in.

quote:

And if you've ever gone to see a DJ you previously loved and witnessed them play a set of pure dogshit, wasting your money, your night out, your pent-up excitement... try telling yourself "Oh well, I'll just listen to someone else!" in that moment.

Hey, I can see your disappointment, but not everyone here has those experiences anymore. That would make for a whole other discussion, entirely, I think.

Anyway, as typical in the COR, the discussion has digressed into attacks, rebuttals, and pointing out each other's foibles, nothing new. I don't mind, this is sometimes fun, but I think the problem in this discussion is mutual misunderstanding between you guys.

Last edited by AlphaStarred on Apr-04-2016 at 22:08

If Alex wants to distance himself from IGK I'm sure he's capable of doing it himself. All I know is he quoted the guy saying "You just come off as an arrogant self important ass" and then said "I agree", before going on to characterise my attitude as "militant".

I really, really can't be bothered defining what constitutes "arguing", either.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/