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Originally posted by dEsidEL hrmzzz.. wells u gotta point, but i dunno if that model would necessarily work better than the way it is now. Say they do resell secured music online. There would still be ways of recording this music with software on ur own computer during playback and encoding it into some open standard. ie. mp3 and then having it redistributed.. and once's it's in mp3 format and being swapped, it'll spread like a viral infectiong again affecting the online sales one would normally have to pay for. personally i just think that the entire industry is undergoing a revolution where the "value" of music itself is going to be redefined forever. Cuz when you look at it in the end, whether it's digital and/or analog, if you can play it back on some kind of hardware, it can be re-recorded into something unsecured and re-digitized.

Your thoughts are interesting! the idea behind keeping the fee relatively low is that it wouldn't be really that worth it for people to leech it as it'd be damn affordable instead of 30 or 40 bucks for a cd. There's actually a bigger problem that is partly responsible for the current situation and thats that IMHO there's just far too many dj's and record labels and not enough real decent quality stuff being produced which i feel is partly responsible too the industry being as it is now. I suspect and hope that a lot of crumby producers of cheese and smut just fade out. But alas i feel it might be just the opposite, with the general public enthralled with the shite and thus supporting these producers and dj's and the quality producers getting shafted.

I'm not too worried though, things have a way of stabilising and i think things will be ok. There's just going to be rationalisation of the industry, and hopefully things like lower priced cd's etc become common.

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Originally posted by fantom Ripping off an artist that gets only 1% of the profit made from CD sales? Hmm, I'd rather support the artist by paying a portion of his booking fee for the club/event appearances... That way I know my money got to him!

The economics of it all isn't quite as simple as you put it. Granted the revenue of EACH cd sold is low, but there is a shit load of other asset you aren't accounting for. Can you put a price on exposure? (just a random example)

Also the success of one album, will offshoot a higher pay contract increase for the artist. For example you may have only made 50G's on your breakthrough album, but you sign a deal with Sony for 5 million for your next two albums. Follow?

Support the artists people, these dj's are not blinging hip hop stars, they will go broke.

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Originally posted by halo20 The economics of it all isn't quite as simple as you put it. Granted the revenue of EACH cd sold is low, but there is a shit load of other asset you aren't accounting for. Can you put a price on exposure? (just a random example) Also the success of one album, will offshoot a higher pay contract increase for the artist. For example you may have only made 50G's on your breakthrough album, but you sign a deal with Sony for 5 million for your next two albums. Follow? Support the artists people, these dj's are not blinging hip hop stars, they will go broke.

i asked Matt Hardwick about the whole GU issue and he made some very good points. hopefully we'll have the recording cleaned up and made available online soon. it's always good to get a DJ's perspective on things such as this. One thing i do remember him saying was the cost of the CD itself. A lot of music I believe is just overvalued.

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I don't suppose any of you remember that there were days before recorded music, where instrumental musicians were a commodity and got paid good money to perform?

Or perhaps the days when "recorded" music was really on "records", and the quality was so un-lifelike that the record just really didn't cut it (no pun intended) and people had to go see the artists/musicians to hear what they really sounded like, in person?

Now, every last one of them except for maybe the worldwide top 10, is broke.

I say it's about damn time we go back to those days. Record companies are greedy - they screw their customers AND their artists. Okay, so a recording studio is expensive, but it's one-time capital; do you know how much money it costs them to make a CD? I'll give you a hint, it's less than 10% of what you pay for a CD-R. Those $40 albums are pure profits and the often hardworking artists get paid peanuts.

Million-dollar contracts are wonderful, but there once was a day when instrumentalists got by pretty well without the backing of major corporations. DJs are musicians like anyone else, and as much as I feel for their situations, they do need to get out there and spin, because that's how musicians always made a living in the past.

There's simply no substitute for live music. There never will be.

My two cents.

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Originally posted by DigiNut I don't suppose any of you remember that there were days before recorded music, where instrumental musicians were a commodity and got paid good money to perform? Or perhaps the days when "recorded" music was really on "records", and the quality was so un-lifelike that the record just really didn't cut it (no pun intended) and people had to go see the artists/musicians to hear what they really sounded like, in person? Now, every last one of them except for maybe the worldwide top 10, is broke. I say it's about damn time we go back to those days. Record companies are greedy - they screw their customers AND their artists. Okay, so a recording studio is expensive, but it's one-time capital; do you know how much money it costs them to make a CD? I'll give you a hint, it's less than 10% of what you pay for a CD-R. Those $40 albums are pure profits and the often hardworking artists get paid peanuts. Million-dollar contracts are wonderful, but there once was a day when instrumentalists got by pretty well without the backing of major corporations. DJs are musicians like anyone else, and as much as I feel for their situations, they do need to get out there and spin, because that's how musicians always made a living in the past. There's simply no substitute for live music. There never will be. My two cents.

Well said...

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Rumor has it that a big company is thinking of buying GU...rumor has it that sony is interesting in buying them but I dunno about that.

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Originally posted by torontotrance Rumor has it that a big company is thinking of buying GU...rumor has it that sony is interesting in buying them but I dunno about that.

Welcome to 10 posts ago (re: Page 2). Apparently the GU name is for sale for 1 million pouds sherling, I have no idea how accurate that is, but that is what the punters are saying. (which they heard from reputable sources, which I know for a fact do exist)

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Originally posted by DigiNut There's simply no substitute for live music. There never will be.

You make some good points, I just have trouble equating live performances with guaranteed succesful sales. Some artists NEVER tour, fucking Nine Inch Nails tours once every 5 years and they have always had succesful disks (in terms of revenue).

I also think it's a good excuse for you cheapo's not to buy the music. Make it sound like the artists are lazy, which imo it's their perogative, why should they tour if they don't want to. Not everyone is a DJ as so much a producer. Mr. Creamer can account for that.

And at what point did going to see a live performance excuse the fact that you can download what you want. I thought they were two completely different sects in the industry? So the producer gets shafted while a road manager makes cash.

Listen, I hate spending money if I don't have to, but it's a tough call in relation to validating being a fan by downloading their full albums.

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It seems to me (when it comes to electronic music) that producers get shafted the most with downloaded music. I mean, a dj who spins well and goes on tour or has some high profile residency can make money spinning and doing what he/she loves. Take producers of trance who are producers more than dj's (first example off the top of my head) solar stone, thrillseekers, or people who produce tracks like ralphie b and 4 strings..the list goes on..how do they make money if they are'nt known as big djs? People like PVD and Tiesto spin their tracks at big expensive parties and make all the money, but how much of those profits do the producers make? Or do the djs have to pay lots of royalties to those producers? Just wondering.

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Originally posted by halo20 Not everyone is a DJ as so much a producer. Mr. Creamer can account for that.

I actually bought some of his songs on vinyl, so I support the producers one way or another...

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Listen, I hate spending money if I don't have to, but it's a tough call in relation to validating being a fan by downloading their full albums.

Well, I hate even more spending the money that I don't have on albums, especially when I could use that money (did I mention that I don't have it?) to pay for my school... so, for now, all those artists will have to settle for a big ZERO from me (unless they decide to drop down to Toronto for a party or two and I actually decide to check them out live)...

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Originally posted by drewfactor do the djs have to pay lots of royalties to those producers?

Ironically it's the complete opposite. DJ's like Tiesto get shipped free vinyl in hopes that a producer may get his shit canned by the biggest dj in the world. I've never heard of anyone paying a dj to play his track, but I wouldn't discount it either. The politics of it all, you play my track, I'll play yours. The trainspotters notice, trust me. (myself included)

Max Graham once told us on his msg board that he gets shipped over 200 vinyl a week. Something to that extent, it was the most ludricrous number ever. Could you imagine the records waiting for Tiesto at home. lol

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Originally posted by halo20 Ironically it's the complete opposite. DJ's like Tiesto get shipped free vinyl in hopes that a producer may get his shit canned by the biggest dj in the world. I've never heard of anyone paying a dj to play his track, but I wouldn't discount it either. The politics of it all, you play my track, I'll play yours. The trainspotters notice, trust me. (myself included) Max Graham once told us on his msg board that he gets shipped over 200 vinyl a week. Something to that extent, it was the most ludricrous number ever. Could you imagine the records waiting for Tiesto at home. lol

hmmmm...interesting...I didn't know that. Sorta seems unfair. You produce a track...and I know that can take ages and lots of effort..then someone just plays it on a record and you get nothing meanwhile the dj gets all the money.


Here's another point: Long before I started downloading music I was buying used cds. I don't think used cd profits go to the artist either. The only reason people would buy new cds a few years back was because they wanted to support the artist and if they released something new. Now they just download. Either way (buying used discs or downloading) the artist makes no money. I may be wrong, correct me if so