As fun as it is to point out the ignorance of others, I really enjoy discussions that deviates from the generic "what style is Tiesto? Progressive? Ulifting? Techno?" or the "have you heard the new solar stone what do you think?" thread. I would rather not see this forum closed and if it does, the same topics would probably be brought up in the chillout area much to the annoyance and irritation of other people. If two out of the 4 or 5 moderators now think that this forum should be closed, we need to get our acts together and be civil if we want to keep this up.

First of all, I also think this board is nice, actually it's my favorite one . Besides, if someone posts here he should know that his opinions probably will not be greeted by everyone like they would be if he'd be on a music board and posting things like "tiesto is the best", "yeah m8, that track roxx", etc. But since people here don't think all in the same way, it is nice to see their opinions, especially if they're backed up by good arguments. Sometimes posts here make me think differently than I did before about some subjects. Here was the first time I actually talked to people from the middle east about the middle east.
And while some posts could be considered offensive, I really never felt personally insulted by any one of them. I don't think anyone here has such a fragile mind that some stupid racist or ignorant post would make him personally feel very bad. If anyone has such a problem, that person doesn't post here anyway. It should be known that this forum is only for tough guys . I definitely want this forum to stay. The only person so far that I've noticed has said he doesn't like this forum was shlomo, and he was the one that made the most ignorant/racist post in this thread in the first place (I'm talking about the first one, the second one is better).

But still, nothing is perfect, especially your posts, so now, shlomo, about your second post...

While I am not opposed to the jewish state, I would be opposing it if it were based on religious laws. That's the exact reason I oppose islamic governments like Saudi Arabia and the like. The only thing that is making Israel different from the arabic world (with exception of Iraq ) is it's secularity. Israel shouldn't destroy the only thing that makes it better than the other countries in the region.

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The major idea for jews in regards to belief, is that we know our holy land is israel. The problem was, that 3 generations before the holocaust, the jews of germany declared, "berlin is our new jerusalem!" And they started the reform movement. In the eyes of the Blessed One, G-D! (am i a facist fanatic if I wish to praise The G-d that put me on this planet and gave me everything I have?) the idea of reform of the ways G-d asked for us (which are a pleasure to keep!) made him upset in a way, that we were falling off the way of being jewish.

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It's well known that generally when jews leave the religon for 3 generations they grow so far apart from the religon that they basically lose it, well this was a huge loss for the jews, and by the third generation, the 1930's, it was time for the Jews to get punished for being totally against the religious ways, its very sad but look what G-d gave us, once our punishment was over. The chance to begin a new, he let us take up land in the 1 small slip of land never claimed for a capital, and only biblical homeland for the jews... and what happpened? The state was founded on a secular non-jewish philosophy. The year was 1948. Now we have made progress.

You should study a bit of history before assigning the reasons for the happening of historical events to supernatural forces.

The jews in Germany, same as in other parts of Europe, were a very homogenous group, and they didn't change their traditional and religious beliefs much. But their homogenity was a sort of double-edged sword. The fact that they used to stick together, combined with their business and profit oriented philosophy was the reason they became the richest ethnical group in most European countries. When Hitler came to power, Germany was in a state of total economic collapse (because of its huge war reparations to Britain and France). Imho Germany did have a just cause to attack France and Britain, but it did not have a just cause to take some other actions it took. But not to get too much off topic, the richest group in Germany were jews, and Hitler needed money for his upcoming war. And what's better way to do it than to kill the few people who control most of german money and confiscate their property? People in other countries didn't like jews for the same reason hitler didn't, so what happened to them in Germany didn't bother them much. Anyway, it was not a punishment by god, it was an unfortunate consequence of historical facts.

And, btw, if any person decides to leave his/her religion, that person loses the religion right away and doesn't have to wait for 3 generations for it to happen. Or maybe it's a jewish speciality?

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You are ULTRA-LEFTWING, I am therefore ULTRA-RIGHTWING.

Hmm, what side of political spectrum were Hitler and the skinheads on? Same as you it seems. I don't mind if people are left-wing or right-wing, but when they get that little ultra prefix, I do start to mind.

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Lastly on this loosely related thread.... In the original TORAH (5 books of moses) in the first book genesis, it says that Avraham had 8 sons. 6 of them, got their presents from him before he died and they moved EAST. They were living in Israel at the time. East of Israel is then Asia. It is taught that the 'gifts' were physical prowess and skills in the arts. Such as martial arts, 'so called' blak magic etc... IT is written in the book! If you look before that point, all the material wealth is given to Issac, so therefore the other 6 son's presents/gifts were knowledge in the arts, that they passed inthe EAST. Whcih we know now of the east. Such as zen buddhism etc... their philosophy is similar to jewish, in the idea of oneness of creation etc...

Yeah, right, and in the original North Korean communist party manifesto it says whole world is celebrating Kim Jong Il's birthday. Please, don't give yourself and the Jews more importance in history than they deserve. It is true that judaism is the base of the 3 largest monotheistic religions, but zen buddhism didn't sprout from the Torah. First of all, the Torah is not a 100% accurate history book, and secondly, India is very far away. But most importantly, your dates and historical facts don't match at all. Buddhism didn't appear when some prophet from a far away land came, but it instead appeared when a young indian prince realized life isn't just his palaces, so he moved on to the street and started preaching what he did. Never was he influenced by any foreigner. Also, prior to Buddha, no traces of jewish-like religion have been found in India. The fact that judaism and it's offsprings share some common ideals with buddhism is that human morale is always in more or less the same boundaries. Most ethnic groups and religions on the planet share similar beliefs of what is evil and what is good. You can say it's basically in human nature. The idea about martial arts is also completely false, because martial arts appeared in China during the early middle ages, when monks who have sworn not to carry any weapons needed to defend themselves from the muggers and thieves. No trace whatsoever of any foreigner bringing those arts.

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Israel wants peace

What was about those dirtbags that need to be stomped on?

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I am personally also opposed to this forum.

That doesn't seem to stop you in making the most ignorant statements on it, though.

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But notice how not even a single comment of scorn to the palestinian legislator threatening to make suicide attacks against america... NOT EVEN ONE!!! Only attacks that someone has the nerve to say something bad about them and try to make israel look good..

That's cause there are no palestinians on this board that are claiming suicide attacks are a good thing. But believe me when I say noone on this board is supporting suicide attacks. It's just that most people probably think it's understood they think so and they don't have to spell it out for you. Do you really think everyone here supports bombings or is indifferent towards them?

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btw. why tito? he was a dictator as well...

He was kinda nice tho. Gave my grandfather a house for loyal serving in the antifascist movement.

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Last edited by DrUg_Tit0 on Feb-25-2003 at 00:33

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 He was kinda nice tho. Gave my grandfather a house for loyal serving in the antifascist movement.

You're shitting me. Did he really??? Hahaha that's actually pretty cool. So after he got booted from power did you grandfather catch any backlash?

shlomo_hamalech i would have a conversation or a debate with you but unfortunately you are as racist as those nazis back in 1939 (you seem to love the word nazi to the point you would write a 300 pages book only about this word) , you hate everybody who's arab and/or muslim therefore all your arguments are invalid to me. it's very easy to hate a specific race or religion and make it the source of all your problems.

anyways i thought i'd let you know that i'm reading what you write , but the next comment you make like this "if the arabs put down their weapons there will be peace, but if the jews put down their weapons there will be no more jews, but a lot of jewish blood!!" i'm gonna suspend your account as simple as it is.

TA has no place for racism/hatred/propaganda.

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fastmp3 wrote: shlomo_hamalech i would have a conversation or a debate with you but unfortunately you are as racist as those nazis back in 1939 (you seem to love the word nazi to the point you would write a 300 pages book only about this word) , you hate everybody who's arab and/or muslim therefore all your arguments are invalid to me. it's very easy to hate a specific race or religion and make it the source of all your problems.

He in no way ever said he hated every Arab or Muslim for that matter!!
Do not put words into peoples mouths!!! He said he hates the extremist mother******s who i along with the majority of the world who has a fraction of a human brain, also hate!

Terrorism should no be accepted as a legite way to have your voice heard! Violence is not the answer and until we as a world condemn the actions of those who inflict terror upon the world, we will never have world peace!

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If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no violence.
If the Israelis put down their weapons today, there would be no Israel.

Is there anything wrong with the statement above??
Why or why not??

This is my opinion... its has a lot of grounds that support the statement. Anyone who has any clue of the history of the conflict would agree with this statement! And if you think you know enough about the conflict in the middle east and dont agree with that statement, than your biases have gotten the best of you, and you choose to be ignorant.

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Originally posted by fastmp3 shlomo_hamalech i would have a conversation or a debate with you but unfortunately you are as racist as those nazis back in 1939 (you seem to love the word nazi to the point you would write a 300 pages book only about this word) , you hate everybody who's arab and/or muslim therefore all your arguments are invalid to me. it's very easy to hate a specific race or religion and make it the source of all your problems. anyways i thought i'd let you know that i'm reading what you write , but the next comment you make like this "if the arabs put down their weapons there will be peace, but if the jews put down their weapons there will be no more jews, but a lot of jewish blood!!" i'm gonna suspend your account as simple as it is. TA has no place for racism/hatred/propaganda.

Fastmp3 are you a moderator? At any rate I don't really think a statement that you quoted is really racist. It certainly is propoganda but if you started banning people on the propoganda they posted you would be banning someone every other day. There have most certainly been worse statements than that posted by other people. And if you are going to be following through with this agenda at least be consistent throughout the forums. I don't agree with Melech Mike or Schlomo on a lot of their views but I hate to see people getting picked on.

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I don't agree with Melech Mike or Schlomo on a lot of their views but I hate to see people getting picked on.

Thanks Occrider for standing up for me... can i give you half my lunch money now and half tomorrow?

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Originally posted by occrider As fun as it is to point out the ignorance of others, I really enjoy discussions that deviates from the generic "what style is Tiesto? Progressive? Ulifting? Techno?" or the "have you heard the new solar stone what do you think?" thread. I would rather not see this forum closed and if it does, the same topics would probably be brought up in the chillout area much to the annoyance and irritation of other people. If two out of the 4 or 5 moderators now think that this forum should be closed, we need to get our acts together and be civil if we want to keep this up.

if these kind of topics were posted in the chill out forum they would be closed str8 away as we mods know that as a rule they degenerate from a debate into out and out flamage.
those 2 out of 4 mods did not want this section to exist in the 1st place, we try to be fair to everyone on this forum in regard to thier veiws, but unless we are expected to be fully educated in every race / religion / political issue current in the world today, it is incredibly hard for us mods to moderate this forum effectivly, we try to be impartial as much as we can but we will NOT, i repeat NOT tolerate personal abuse or flamage or outright racisim.

so in effect we are asking for you who post in here to police yourselves as much as you can as you are more conversant with the political / religious issues happening in the world and are therefore in a better posistion to judge if someone is being out of order.
and then to bring that matter to the attention of a mod who will then decide as best as they can on what to do.

in the long term it may be an idea to have one of you who contribute to this forum to be a mod of this forum too, but whom that will be is of yet much open to debate as the other mods and i have yet to see one of you that can keep thier cool.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 The jews in Germany, same as in other parts of Europe, were a very homogenous group, and they didn't change their traditional and religious beliefs much. But their homogenity was a sort of double-edged sword. The fact that they used to stick together, combined with their business and profit oriented philosophy was the reason they became the richest ethnical group in most European countries. When Hitler came to power, Germany was in a state of total economic collapse (because of its huge war reparations to Britain and France). Imho Germany did have a just cause to attack France and Britain, but it did not have a just cause to take some other actions it took. But not to get too much off topic, the richest group in Germany were jews, and Hitler needed money for his upcoming war. And what's better way to do it than to kill the few people who control most of german money and confiscate their property? People in other countries didn't like jews for the same reason hitler didn't, so what happened to them in Germany didn't bother them much. Anyway, it was not a punishment by god, it was an unfortunate consequence of historical facts.

Let me use this already reached Off-topic situation and comment on the "why did Hitler kill Jews" question. I know the money argument but I don't think this is entirely true. Antisemitism as the ideology behind the Holocaust was not pure jeaolusy of Jewish wealthniess. It derives utself from the religious conflict which started off with the crucification of Jesus and culumniates when Jews leave ghettos and intend to assimilate themselves to German culture. That's the the boomerang effect of "keeping the strangers strange" takes place, accompanied by the nationalism of the 19. century and racism as a "science". Adolf Hitler breathed all of it, was this spirit's personification, all of which can be read in his book "Mein Kampf" which was written YEARS before his political danvacement. We're talking bout ~1923... War was in 1939.
And I do not see any justification whatsoever in the invasion of France etc. If you're unsatisfied with 1, econimic crisis 2, restrictions and humuliations as a result of post WW1 treatties there will always be other solutions than offensive wars.

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i would also add that Christian anti-semitism explains why people went along with the Nazis but it doesnt explain why Hitler wanted to kill Jewish people. Hitler only believed in himself, not God so he never wanted to kill Jewish people because they were 'Christ killers'

Hitler grew up in the Austro-Hungarian empire where that anti-semitism was widespread, there were very many eastern european jews in Vienna at the turn of the century and their culture was very alien to the Austrians.

Many people also believed the accuracy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion a fictitious work about Jewish conspiracies of world domination.

Hitlers antipathy to Jewish people was confirmed in his eyes after the War when many of the leaders of the Bolshevik inspired revolts against the Weimar Republic were Jewish.

This confirmed his belief (and many others besides) that Jews and Communists were responsible for the defeat of Germany not that Germany was beaten in battle. Many soldiers believed they had been stabbed in the back.

Hitler himself loved the army life and felt bitterly betrayed at the defeat in World War 1 and vowed revenge on those he believed had led to Germanys defeat.

Hitlers policy, right from the get go was to avenge for the defeats of World War 1, to restore German and more importantly his honour.

This meant first and foremost exterminating all of the untermensch who had betrayed him.