I don't understand why the record labels dont set up some sort of mail order thing. They could put a low quality mp3 of the track on their site before release so people listen to it and if they like it they can preorder the track. Then when the vinals are pressed they only need to make the number required. And if interest is high enough second runs can be produced etc. It would cut costs by improving effeciency and allow them to sell more records on popular titles. The way things stand labels are blaming joe public but in reality the way labels think about music has to be changed from the bottom up.

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i didn't read this entire thread so maybe it has been brought up already but why do you automatically assume he doesn't have the original CDs?

if you've ever had your music collection stolen at a party, you would probably be playing CDRs also.

another reason for CDRs is so you can create your own compilations with the tracks you want to play and leave the "album filler" tracks out so you don't have to cart around as many discs.

yeah, this dude could have been a ****** but at the same time, he might not have been.

quote:

Originally posted by smallSHEEP I don't understand why the record labels dont set up some sort of mail order thing. They could put a low quality mp3 of the track on their site before release so people listen to it and if they like it they can preorder the track. Then when the vinals are pressed they only need to make the number required. And if interest is high enough second runs can be produced etc. It would cut costs by improving effeciency and allow them to sell more records on popular titles. The way things stand labels are blaming joe public but in reality the way labels think about music has to be changed from the bottom up.

thing is -- there is this "elitist" type of mentality which is really the blame of all this.

[RANT]
FUcK!! JUst put the music out to the masses in whatever SHAPE OR FORM whether it be 12" or CDs! Problem is the music is NOT readily available for people to get. People will say "mail order from online stores"...what the fuck are you smoking man!?!?..do people need to mail order their new Britney Spears single?!? NO! Forecast how many copies will sell as 12" and make the CD singles available as well -- I know people will buy CDs as well (me being one of em!). Not EVERYONE who buys electronica (in our case Trance) SPIN! Stop with this elite shit that only if you are a top DJ you get certain promo shit...sure give it to them first to play BUT have it RELEASED and made available to ANYONE that would want a copy!

ARGH! I hate the way the labels market the music -- I just want the music and I am MORE THAN WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. There will always be the people who will leech (whether it be copying from a friends copy or even from the net), but the labels aren't helping by making only a limited amount of copies!!!

I WANT MY MUSIC!!
[/RANT]

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looped in sequence

• Andain - Promise
  
• Adrian Lux - Can't Sleep
  
• Benjamin Francis Leftwich - See You
  
• Company of Thieves - Even In The Dark
  

The situation is we love this music, we should support it. Yes its great the tunes get exposure when you play the newest stuff, but make sure in someway there is support flowing backwards as well as forwards.

The labels etc, are not going to change from their old school ways, its the news ones that will, but if everyone is just downloading and burning, the investment and commitment to starting a label is minimum, especially when the profits are minimum.

quote:

Originally posted by wushuboy I hope you recant what you said about me and the other djs that were using cds at that show being theives.

Sorry if I upset you here but it is illegal. Regardless of whether you think its right or wrong, it was someone elses intellectual property and you used it in a public place without their permission.

Please just support what you love.

alright now that my account is FINALLY activated I can start responding. Most likely, I am the one they are talking about as I WAS only spinning cd's at the event and was hogging most of the time away from wushuboy, his friend, and djtecktonic.
There were so many things that I wanted to say but in the interest of keeping my first post from turning into a novel of discussions with everyone, I'll just say the biggest thing on my mind...
first of all, I will not argue that downloading and burnin music to spin keeps artists from making SOME money. But people like Max Graham, Sander, Sasha, Digweed, basically all those guys on balance promote, excession etc. make a MINIMUM of 10,000 US PER GIG. And if you look at their schedules and do the math... they aren't exactly living off foodstamps. For new producers, the mp3 world just makes it hundreds of times easier to distribute their music and get their names and work out to the masses. Sander happens to be my favorite dj, and since he began spinning in LA, I have not missed a single performance. I support him by attending every one of his events and I literally stay in there for his entire 4+ hour sets usually standing and sober so that i don't miss a minute of it.
The reason I love this scene and got into it in the first place is because it's underground. not necessarily in the sense that it's unknown to exist by the general population, but that it was fueled and founded just by the love of the music and the subculture. It had no intentions of being commercial and capitalistic in nature. For this reason I've begun to hate people like Oakenfold who are trying to push it overground and begin to make money off it, because if you notice now.. there are so many low quality trance tracks being made that are just crap because people are just trying to make a buck now (which is why i'm into progressive now). Personally I spin for free, and would spin for free anywhere just because I love music and love to spin. Ultimately what I want to ask you is what is it about now for you, the money or the music?

<---- Happily plays burned CD's on my 1 CDJ100. I do so, because many of the songs I have burned I can't find. Take note, the CDJ100 rests beside two 1200's and $4000 worth of vinyl.

Yes I support my music.

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo The situation is we love this music, we should support it. Yes its great the tunes get exposure when you play the newest stuff, but make sure in someway there is support flowing backwards as well as forwards. The labels etc, are not going to change from their old school ways, its the news ones that will, but if everyone is just downloading and burning, the investment and commitment to starting a label is minimum, especially when the profits are minimum. Sorry if I upset you here but it is illegal. Regardless of whether you think its right or wrong, it was someone elses intellectual property and you used it in a public place without their permission. Please just support what you love.

Then you should consider yourself a theif as well since you downloaded illegal cracked programs and ripped movies. Public or not it is illegal as you say. Do you think just cuz you dont showcase it in public that its right? You are still pirating the stuff. Dont give me this hypocracy and double standard. By your logic you're as much a "theif" as i am. As for making sure that i am in some way giving support to the artists... how many times must i tell you that I BUY VINYL!!!!!!!!!!! Get it thru your thick skull ok?? MY favorite DJ is PvD... I've flown to NY and boston from california to see him spin..spending well over 600 dollars. Can you say the same? I think that shows some dedication there as well as support. So i think you need to stop thinking that you're this moral doo gooder and stop with this hypocritical rant you're giving me.

And yes.. you're idea of "trance morals" is cheesy. Actually.. you may very well be able to be president.. since your "morals" are just as short sighted and one sided as our current president's.

My point is.. dont call us theives when you are one too.

My morals are equal to yours, except in one area and that is you've taken your piracy one level higher and showcased it for other people.

So I guess when Bush takes it one step further then you can become president.

How do you know how much money I have spent on vinyl, Dj's. I spent $3000 just so I can get to hear trance on an Island (Ibiza) and at a festival. Can you say the same??? Stupid arguement.

As for big DJ's they have an avenue where people can see what they showcase for free, shows. Producers however rely on sales and the bottom line is they are losing way more than they did before.

But the main issue here is whether or not your going to cry about it or have a nice debate, which Im enjoying. But why dont you argue with this

"You proberly heared that "Lightning-records" is closed.
It was my home for many years,and with lots of pain and sorrow it's an end of an era. As we all know Lightning suffered from low CD sales,getting attacked by MP3 downloading,and sales droping all over."

Thats a quote from MIKE. Join his forums tell him you played a burnt CDR for an audience and see what he says.

You know what, I dont know enough about you and you dont know enough about me, but I do know that there are people out there who make no effort to support and happily played pirated music with out trying to get it legimately.

The fact of the matter is this trend has started and its not going to stop, whether I like it or not. But like I said Im cynical, to the point where I am willing to be a hypocrate. So whether I am a thief or not in regards to DVD etc, I dont care about that shit. I care about trance music and how the some of its biggest fans are killing it. *Note: Not saying wushboy is killing the scene.

"Its Time for A Revolution"

quote:

Originally posted by hansolo My morals are equal to yours, except in one area and that is you've taken your piracy one level higher and showcased it for other people. So I guess when Bush takes it one step further then you can become president. How do you know how much money I have spent on vinyl, Dj's. I spent $3000 just so I can get to hear trance on an Island (Ibiza) and at a festival. Can you say the same??? Stupid arguement. As for big DJ's they have an avenue where people can see what they showcase for free, shows. Producers however rely on sales and the bottom line is they are losing way more than they did before. But the main issue here is whether or not your going to cry about it or have a nice debate, which Im enjoying. But why dont you argue with this "You proberly heared that "Lightning-records" is closed. It was my home for many years,and with lots of pain and sorrow it's an end of an era. As we all know Lightning suffered from low CD sales,getting attacked by MP3 downloading,and sales droping all over." Thats a quote from MIKE. Join his forums tell him you played a burnt CDR for an audience and see what he says. You know what, I dont know enough about you and you dont know enough about me, but I do know that there are people out there who make no effort to support and happily played pirated music with out trying to get it legimately. The fact of the matter is this trend has started and its not going to stop, whether I like it or not. But like I said Im cynical, to the point where I am willing to be a hypocrate. So whether I am a thief or not in regards to DVD etc, I dont care about that shit. I care about trance music and how the some of its biggest fans are killing it. *Note: Not saying wushboy is killing the scene. "Its Time for A Revolution"

It does not matter whether or not you showcase it to the public or not. The underlying fact of the matter is that you are still a thief as well. You have not addressed my point of whether you think that using a cracked program or divx is valid just because you use it privately. I have addressed all your points in this debate.. while you have not addressed many of mine.

The point with going out to ny to see Pvd was not how much money was spent.. but it was to show that i do have dedication to the scene and i support it. You cannot deny that. If i did not support it i would just sit at home and listen to his ripped sets, correct? SO in that matter.. it is not a stupid arguement.

Big DJS do not have a free forum to showcase. You, as a fan, pay to get to hear the music. This is where u have not addressed my point where i have told u time and again that we did not receive any monetary compensation for spinning on that day. I wonder how you feel about internet broadcasts then. These are radio stations run via shoutcast that broadcast live to the public. Same thing.. you just dont actually see the person putting the mp3 into the winamp playlist. What do you think most of they play? I;ve given you plenty of arguements... you chose to only argue certain points while ignoring others completely. You choose to circumvent the arguement by saying "So whether I am a thief or not in regards to DVD etc, I dont care about that shit." To me .. you are only argueing one side.

In regards to Lightning records, it is a shame that it went down. Your anger as well as arguement seem to be blaming me for its demise. I can tell you this... i dont have any devotion to any single label. If i like a song then i buy it. If there was a song i liked on the Lightning record label then i would buy it. For me, i buy most of the vinyls that come off the Vandit label as well as CDs and such. As a fan and supporter, you can only do so much. So.. dont take your anger out on me.. because i do support the labels i do like.

YES, YES, EVEYONE THAT READS THIS, WUSHBOY FROM LA Ruined Lightning records, plus has a lot of trouble reading what I have layed out before him.

I am one side, CYNICAL. I wont argue on both sides.

You support the scene in your way, I will do it my way.

Hopefully one day, I can catch you spinning a live set as you can do the same with me and hopefully we can both make a livelyhood out of something we both love.

can we end this discussion already? CDJs vs Vinyl Junkies vs MP3djs...it always ends the same. technology changes, and being a purist and not accepting change never helps. The problem is not giving due when it is deserved.

I believe most of the people on this site, and that listen to trance do love the music for what it is and don't blatanly and greedily try to make money off of it. If that was the case, they'd be into mainstream music where money flows much easier. For those that do just burn CDs and such, they do deserve flaming. However, next time, before you immediately assume someone is a thief and a greedy bastard, think before you accuse someone.

that being said, hansolo, it is not a very strong argument to say that wushuboy is more immoral just cuz he "took piracy to a level higher". that's like saying "hey i only copied two pages from the book, but he copied the whole book". morals isn't something to be judged in terms of levels. You either have it or you don't. and just cuz u dun care as much about dvds or wuteva, it dun mean that it's still not piracy. yea?

at the end of the day, please think before you accuse someone of something...we're all in this together, as a dj, as a supporter, as a listener, etc. trance is our common link, so why are we trying to destroy it by competing? get it thru ur heads, in every community there will be ppl that aren't as honest, as moral, as respective...but if you get caught up in fighting over that, ur gonna get nowhere.

please just stop this...i'm so tired of hearing about it. those ppl that blatantly don't pay their dues know who they are. i hope they realize that their love for trance is tainted when they don't respect the artist. and as for the majority who pay their dues in one way or the other, more power to you. so stop gettin' on each other's cases aight?

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quote:

Originally posted by hansolo You support the scene in your way, I will do it my way. Hopefully one day, I can catch you spinning a live set as you can do the same with me and hopefully we can both make a livelyhood out of something we both love.

and i hope that's the end of this...

i kno for a fact that wushuboy loves the music, and i'm pretty sure that hansolo does too. so put on some trance and lets get our fuckin' groove on.

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