Ben Brown is not an idiot, but those were some poor points.

quote:

Originally posted by JackJamOn Then again, so was Ben's Radiohead analogy. Well, maybe not "unfair", but it certainly wasn't apt. I don't think MrJiveBoJingles post was uncalled for in the least. The coddling of those in the industry who bring the overall standards for quality down is not a good thing, and frankly, I think Mr. Brown would do well to read a lot of what I'm sure he thinks is uncalled for and take it to heart if he doesn't want to wind up in the same place as Deadmau5 (namely, someone so clearly given to the business side of dance music that it's obvious they don't really care about the scene or the music as a whole). There seems to be a pretty big divide here between moderately successful, flavor of the moment producers, and people who actually care about electronic music for the long haul. I'll gladly join the so-called "elitists" - 5 years from now there isn't going to be a person on the planet who will want to touch a Deadmau5 record, and he will be forgotten along with all the other substance free artists who come and go. At best he'll be an EDM trivial pursuit answer. By the same token, I'd bet the so-called "elitists" will still be as passionate about the music as they quite obviously are now.

i don't think ben's analogy was too bad


deadmau5 doesn't deejay. he performs his material live. that's his show. when pete tong asks him to do an essential mix, this is what deadmau5 does.

The problem I have is that the amount of effort and originality seems to be lacking a lot. He had a platform to show the world all his possibilities, but opted for a very conservative crowdpleasing mix. He could have written new material, crafted a very special mix from beginning to end. And guess what? He won essential mix of the year, and made a mix that people still listen to zealously. Everyone voted for this mix, because it was just simply good.

A better comparison would be Trentemoller and his EM. Obviously Trentemoller does a live show, even though he does DJ a bit. Yet when asked to do the essential mix, Trentemoller put together a very special eclectic mix of music in the manner of a DJ. He played plenty of his own material, yet adapted to the format. He played his music in context, thus giving it more meaning.

I don't like deadmau5's music, but my opinion on that is negligable. What bothers me more is the attitude he projects in everything he does, that is, he seems to take everything as a joke, or at least uses that as a convenient way to get out of criticism. His performance is absolutely filled with gimmicks, just like Girl Talk.

At the same time I can't really say he's doing anything terrible. I mean simple people will be attracted to his music, and more sophisticated listeners won't be. He's not ruining anything for me lol. I don't see him playing at the undergrounds or weeklies I frequent. He's making a lot of people really happy, helping them to get laid and take their first pill. And he seems like he's having a great time doing it, and taking home a big paycheck. He must be a happy dude.


Again the issue I have is, the EM is not the same venue. It's not the same simple crowd of people that follow his oversized, bobbing mouse head. The EM is (was) a venerable institution - some of the work people have done is incredible. I think deadmau5 had the opportunity to make something that would last for a long time, but instead took his typical approach of making something forgettable just to get/give instant gratification.

I just question whether his point was simply to "play nice" or if he was actually using the Radiohead analogy to defend Deadmau5 - either way, playing nice is just a dressed up version of lying and what Deadmau5 does is mix kick-snare into kick-snare for 32 beats using a computer.

Simply put, Deadmau5 isn't playing anything beyond actually pressing "play" and letting the punters go on believing he's doing far more than he actually is. There is nothing about that I find worthy of praise.

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Originally posted by JackJamOn Simply put, Deadmau5 isn't playing anything beyond actually pressing "play" and letting the punters go on believing he's doing far more than he actually is. There is nothing about that I find worthy of praise.

do you have proof of that? I've seen videos and it looks like he's doing quite a bit more. I used to think the same as you.

I mean he's not doing what cobblestone jazz or orbital or basic channel does, but it's still something.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec . . .

I don't think we disagree on anything but the fact that Ben's analogy was bad.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec do you have proof of that? I've seen videos and it looks like he's doing quite a bit more. I used to think the same as you. I mean he's not doing what cobblestone jazz or orbital or basic channel does, but it's still something.

Link to videos? All I have to go on are my ears. I didn't play booth monkey when I saw him play, so I didn't see for myself, but I didn't hear anything except for his tracks bookending one another.

He seemed a bit more concerned with managing his costume than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by JackJamOn Link to videos? All I have to go on are my ears. I didn't play booth monkey when I saw him play, so I didn't see for myself, but I didn't hear anything except for his tracks bookending one another. He seemed a bit more concerned with managing his costume than anything else.

i don't think he's being very adventurous with the arrangement haha




lots of pioneer efx lol, and a shlomi aber ripoff

one reason his music is so harmonically simple -

lack of keyboard

regardless, live PA is fucking hard to do, especially when you are reproducing music that was written in software sequencers with all of the effects and modulation inline

i mean musically it's pretty bland - basically beats and simple synth, using EFX to mask what would otherwise be boring transitions between another set of beats and a simple synth.


He's doing it live, but making it sound as if it were a deejay.

Last edited by nefardec on Aug-01-2008 at 18:52

See, now watching a video like that I have a hard time with people making the "Deadmau5 is not a DJ" argument. That's all he is - a DJ, he just happens to use a laptop. I really don't see how he is doing even a single thing that a DJ can't do with two pieces of vinyl or CD's and a mixer.

And as kind of an aside - when did this kind of rubbish officially become a "live PA"? And I'm not just talking about Deadmau5 here - every kid with a laptop, MIDI controller, and copy of Ableton is now booking themselves as a "live PA" and then proceeding to either DJ the same way everyone else does, or bore me to tears because, as you say, live PA's are fucking hard. I really don't think preproducing a bunch of tracks and using a computer to play them out as-is qualifies as a live PA - but I'm guessing that will be a matter of opinion.

Anyways, I can see any number of locals rocking bush league EFX and using a computer to mix two tracks together - and they won't all be Deadmau5 tracks either!

quote:

Originally posted by JackJamOn See, now watching a video like that I have a hard time with people making the "Deadmau5 is not a DJ" argument. That's all he is - a DJ, he just happens to use a laptop. I really don't see how he is doing even a single thing that a DJ can't do with two pieces of vinyl or CD's and a mixer. And as kind of an aside - when did this kind of rubbish officially become a "live PA"? And I'm not just talking about Deadmau5 here - every kid with a laptop, MIDI controller, and copy of Ableton is now booking themselves as a "live PA" and then proceeding to either DJ the same way everyone else does, or bore me to tears because, as you say, live PA's are fucking hard. I really don't think preproducing a bunch of tracks and using a computer to play them out as-is qualifies as a live PA - but I'm guessing that will be a matter of opinion. Anyways, I can see any number of locals rocking bush league EFX and using a computer to mix two tracks together - and they won't all be Deadmau5 tracks either!

it looks at least as if he has different perc tracks and stuff bussed to different channels on his mixer and he's layering them that way

it's pretty rubbish though for sure, just expensive equipment

LEMUR + TENORI-on

I'll throw this out there just so it's on the table too - I own several Deadmau5 tracks, and have played them on occasion. I do really think that somewhat formulaic and "dumbed down" music has it's place, especially in clubs - and in that regard, Deadmau5 is really not so bad an option compared to a bulk of the rest of commercial stuff out there.

What I think both nefardec (though I hope I'm not speaking for you out of turn) and I take issue with is the cavalier, "fuck you, the herd says I'm a success so I'm awesome" mentality that accompanies average or poor work.

Just because the masses pay money for something doesn't mean it's good, and whether the producers who post here like it or not, the people who stick around for the long haul in terms of EDM are who most seem to call "elitists" - which seems to be a misnomer, unless of course anyone who's passionate about anything is a "__________ elitist."

quote:

Originally posted by JackJamOn I'll throw this out there just so it's on the table too - I own several Deadmau5 tracks, and have played them on occasion. I do really think that somewhat formulaic and "dumbed down" music has it's place, especially in clubs - and in that regard, Deadmau5 is really not so bad an option compared to a bulk of the rest of commercial stuff out there. What I think both nefardec (though I hope I'm not speaking for you out of turn) and I take issue with is the cavalier, "fuck you, the herd says I'm a success so I'm awesome" mentality that accompanies average or poor work. Just because the masses pay money for something doesn't mean it's good, and whether the producers who post here like it or not, the people who stick around for the long haul in terms of EDM are who most seem to call "elitists" - which seems to be a misnomer, unless of course anyone who's passionate about anything is a "__________ elitist."

yeah i would avoid putting thoughts in the mau5 head

i have to imagine he really likes what he's doing.

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Originally posted by nefardec yeah i would avoid putting thoughts in the mau5 head i have to imagine he really likes what he's doing.

That wasn't what I was really getting at - the following:

quote:

"fuck you, the herd says I'm a success so I'm awesome"

...was really only inferred from the responses he's posted in this thread among others.

I really don't think that's putting thoughts in his (bulbous, red) head when he constantly remarks on how little the opinion of the TA's means to him.