quote:

Originally posted by 24K I don't respect DJ's that play cds. Now,,, it's one thing if you're playing your own tracks and what not,,, and also if you just play one or two songs on cd. But when I see DJ's playing only cds it really pisses me off because of how much time,,, money and effort goes into finding rare vinyl.

One of the dumbest things i have ever read...no offence but just stupid. please dont drive a car, ride a horse..a lot of time and effort goes into training and raising a horse.

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Meh

If you're gonna start DJing today, then CD would be the clever choice and vinyl the nostalgic.
Vinyl is on the way out, has been for some time now, slowly fading.
From purely a financial point of view it makes sense for everyone concerned. And those dumbasses that go on about CD mixing being easier??? Where does that come from!! Its EXACTLY the same, you still have to cue and beatmatch, just the record won't jump anymore! Plus you can loop etc. Makes sense. People have got this thing about vinyl locked in their head, just as they do with Technics being the ONLY deck out there (again untrue). They will be left behind very quickly unless they embrace technology! Its up to them.
But this DJing with Ableton Live, not good. I've seen sasha a few times and to be honest I was bored and worse still HE looked bored!
They go on about more creativity with Ableton, which is true, but more often than not people just want to hear the damn tune as it was intended, without re-edit after re-edit.
It looks bad too, when the DJ doesn't appear to do much, coz it is a visual thing, people want to see stuff.

Good post Kev Boy,

With you on all of that.

When it comes to Ableton, you have to ask yourself this... Is there a point when a DJ doing a remix on the fly actually becomes more offensive?
A lot of reasons why big tunes work is because people want to hear them as they are because that's the version they love.
Just a simple thing as mixing out of a tune too early can get you some boos from the crowd so it should be handled with care. The other thing is that if you put out this set where you mess around with stuff so much, a lot of people who are into the club scene may not be able to relate to what you are playing.
The risk of overkill is also a factor.

Also agree, I don't know where anyone got the idea that mixing on CD's was easier than viynl. Although I know jocks who can play one format or the other but not both but so it works both ways. But the one thing they all have in common is that their level on their prefered medium is not at a high enough level to master what they are already using. Once you have mastered one it's pretty easy to grasp the other but that is purely because you know the principles of what you are doing.

I now get most of my promos on CD, which is nice because they fit through the letter box and saves me a trip to the postoffice 2 or 3 times a week.
I can take them with me and get a feel for the tracks I like and the ones to be sold on.

I still play vinyl and love it, but I get tired of people slagging off CDs. Especially those who think that you can't rock a night by just using that media.

There are many here who get hung up by the fact that Armin does this or Sasha does that. Some people slate them for playing commercial stuff etc. but hey, they are number one two or three in the world... they don't care that some people on forums write about them when those people themselves still have trouble putting together a demo that's sounds half decent. Bedroom DJs are the Armchair quarter backs of Music!

Some people wont play a tune if they can't get it on vinyl... ok that's their choice but I'll be damned if I'm not going to play a tune that I know will work just because of the format it plays on. As a working DJ your job is to make people have the best time they can possibly have listening to your music and anyone who thinks that the majority of clubbers give a crap about whether you play CD or vinyl is seriously missinformed.

I have to say though, there is something that I find a little dull with the idea of someone using Ableton (or Disableton as I like to call it). It's actually a great piece of software and I have been testing it myself. I have to say that I don't get the same joy out of mixing with it. The bottom line is that I don't enjoy it very much and that would reflect on me as a DJ giving a performance.

Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by Kev Boy If you're gonna start DJing today, then CD would be the clever choice and vinyl the nostalgic. Vinyl is on the way out, has been for some time now, slowly fading. From purely a financial point of view it makes sense for everyone concerned. And those dumbasses that go on about CD mixing being easier??? Where does that come from!! Its EXACTLY the same, you still have to cue and beatmatch, just the record won't jump anymore! Plus you can loop etc. Makes sense. People have got this thing about vinyl locked in their head, just as they do with Technics being the ONLY deck out there (again untrue). They will be left behind very quickly unless they embrace technology! Its up to them. But this DJing with Ableton Live, not good. I've seen sasha a few times and to be honest I was bored and worse still HE looked bored! They go on about more creativity with Ableton, which is true, but more often than not people just want to hear the damn tune as it was intended, without re-edit after re-edit. It looks bad too, when the DJ doesn't appear to do much, coz it is a visual thing, people want to see stuff.

Your post started off ok but when you started talking about Ableton you bombed buddy...what does sasha's music have to do with ableton????!
If you dont like his musci from ableton your not going to form a cd or vinyl or an elephant..he looked bored?? matbe it was an off day..have you seen his video from his website in Beuenos Aires...he looked nothing but happy and excited while bouncing around..i agree people want to hear a tune but some tunes sound better with re editing..plus some mixes on ableton are not possible with vinyl at all..you mentioned those still using vinyl will get left behind..same will hold true for cd djs in years to come.

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The point about Ableton was not the music, Yes of course the music can be the same whether on cd or whatever, but its the whole visual thing. Thats the big difference. I'm not having a go at Ableton, its amazing! especially from a producers point of view. So I suppose I may have been having a go at Sasha more than ableton. In another djs hands I may have loved it.
But when people keep going on about how its gonna enhance a Djs performance, then I enjoy myself even less! I saw Sasha twice, and both times he hardly even used headphones! 90% of clubbers don't even know what Ableton is, so when they see someone standing there motionless, doing what seems to be nothing, it don't look good. The first time was at one of London's best and busiest clubs, and the second time was at a festival with 20,000 people. I promise you, he just stood there, and the music was dull. Plenty of other people thought so too. Even other big name DJs (was it Coxy? can't remember)have voiced there opinion on this, and sasha in particular, prob coz he's the main champion of ableton.
Is it the way forward in general for DJing? I've heard Oakenfold say it isn't many times, again due to the visual thing. Its all about entertainment and people like to see the decks out, and the DJ active, whether it be vinyl or cd. The problem maybe that people are too used to decks and change is difficult, breaking old habits. Maybe when they understand what Ableton is opinion might change?? CDS will be here for a long time (I hope), the move towards technology Iin the DJ booth anyway) has to stop somewhere, or we'll be DJing in a club from home eventually! (only joking!)

Yep, it was Carl Cox. He was none to complementary about any of it.
I agree, there is still a need for interaction and people actually enjoy seeing a good DJ get to work.
As I also said in my previous post, I don't actually enjoy using it. It makes the task of performing a mix actually quite dull. If you are just going to mix on it, which I know some guys do... then you might as well break out the valium. And to stop yourself from going crazy you have to do some other stuff as there is no preparation involved other than what you do prior to the performance.

On the other hand, Sasha is also known for playing the same set over a period of time anyway. Surprised he didn't quit the headphones a long time ago... he he. (PS that's a joke, before I get the Sashettes on my ass).

From my own point of view, I actually enjoy spinning with vinyl and CDs. And I don't feel like switching to Ableton... not because it's crap, but because it isn't fun for me.

Oh well, time will tell.
At least the world doesn't have to suffer the likes of Boy George on the decks as much these days.

Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 At least the world doesn't have to suffer the likes of Boy George on the decks as much these days.

His mixing was a little rocky sometimes, but his tune selection was top notch.
Camp as christmas of course...

Nice one Nem, glad someone agrees with me! I'm sure lots of people do actually! Yeah, it must be boring using a computer to beatmatch for you. I saw Adam Sheridan use that Traktor thing at Turnmills as well, but I think that gives you the option to do it yourself or not

I don't really like this computer mixing either. Don't get me wrong its cool and all. But I find it very annoying when tunes are mixed out of early, especially if its one I like. If I hear my favorite tunes chopped and changed all over the shop, I won't like it. Its the same as when a DJ uses filters and flangers/phasers on the mixer too much. It bloody annoying!!!

Aside from that, its one thing to see a dj who can't mix for shit, but plays good tunes, that is forgivable. But a dj who has taken on this new computer mixing and butchers every single track? No thanks...

Kinda defies the point of our music in my opinion. Trance is about subtle changes, tunes building slowly, creating atmosphere, telling a story, etc. Befor melting down into pure bliss. Its my opinion that simply by adding bits and mixing all the time you loses most/all of this.

To steal a saying from mixmag's CDs "Mixed by djs, not computers"

Hey Lunarphase 7. I agree with everything u say 100%.
Ableton is supposed to enhance the DJs performance, but I've never had this supposed unbelievable experience that it can give. Take me back to Cream 97-98 anyday, just Oaky and his decks!

Digital DJing just plain flat out sucks.

People might joke about the "good old days" when the music was better etc etc, but you know the music is even better today but what destroyed the shit out of it was this side trip into crappy progressive land which went no where really fast while at the same time the digital DJ somehow got in there like the little weasle he is to play to a crowd tired of crap tunes yet came armed with a playlist of garbage downloaded off the net pushed by desperate labels who didn't wake up to the fact that they were not able to push 5000 copies of crud on vinyl, but hey everyone will blow a dollar on pure shit if its digital.

So, thinking back, the music was pretty killer from say 1997-2001 and it was all pretty much vinyl.

Today we have some wicked toons out there and I seem to keep finding them on vinyl.... hmmmm...All the really good DJs that I want to see still play vinyl.... hmmmm.... some formerly mixed CD/vinyl djs have gone back to vinyl..... hmmmmm

So what's gone wrong?? People are being sucked into the digital trap at the very low and high end of the scene and unfortunately those are the two ends that breathe new life into the whole thing at critical times but this time around they are sucking in recycled air and choking out the middle which has always "known better".

Point?? Digital = the death of dance music.
So stop pointing a gun at your head. Tell Digital DJs to fuck themselves no matter who they are. Super star or not. Tell artists to shop their tracks to real record labels, not to blow their brains out by giving them away online. Tell promoters you think that having digital DJs or laptop pa performances is a joke on a handbill and at an event. It's time to push back.
FUCK DIGITAL.

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