Seen that Casset Deck many many times her on TA.
I feel sorry for you guys under the PPL, the laws are getting out of control more and more. All these stupid-ass laws that are trying to fight piracy (and failing miserably) suck and are starting to kill DJ's who use CDS and or Computers.

DJ 00 Tommy,
You've got it so wrong. The PPL, PRS, BPI, AIM, MCPS etc. are there to protect music people. They are trying to stamp out piracy, and make sure the people who make the tunes and license them, get the money they deserve! If they don't get the money, then people are going to stop making them eventually, and then where will we be? Many good companies have gone out of business already (HOOJ Choons for example).
They collect royalties for labels and writers, the PRS do a similar job, but collect for artists and publishers. They are only after people who download illegaly. If people play out using dodgy downloads then tough, if they get caught, which is highly unlikely anyway. Buying a good quality download is cheap now anyway.
Yeah, there is a grey area about playing out copies of legitimate CDs in clubs, but as long as you can prove you have the original, or paid to download, then it should be ok. But to say there laws are stupid-ass isn't very clever! Don't you won't rid of piracy and for producers/labels to make money?

quote:

Originally posted by Kev Boy DJ 00 Tommy, You've got it so wrong.

no he hasnt.

quote:

The PPL, PRS, BPI, AIM, MCPS etc. are there to protect music people. They are trying to stamp out piracy, and make sure the people who make the tunes and license them, get the money they deserve!

so are you saying its DJs that are causing the most damage to the music industry? please, we spend more money on music than all of the regular cosumers who are the ones pirating. and you think charging 200 pounds a year is fair to those who have already legally purchased their songs? thats just bullshit.

theyve made it illegal to play your own edits without permission. or your own remixes. that really puts a cramp on edm's versatile nature. if i wanna cut out 30 seconds of a song during a long breakdown, why shouldnt i be able to?

quote:

Yeah, there is a grey area about playing out copies of legitimate CDs in clubs, but as long as you can prove you have the original, or paid to download, then it should be ok. But to say there laws are stupid-ass isn't very clever! Don't you won't rid of piracy and for producers/labels to make money?

except theyve gone further than that (see above). im all for stamping out piracy, and love to see hefty fines against those DJs breaking sensible & fair laws. but the PPL's actions (im basing this on what freak posted a while back) are a disgrace imo.

___________________

PkcRaistlin,
What that dude said was "stupid-ass laws to fight piracy". That IS wrong, coz anyone fighting piracy is a good thing surely? Thats all I meant. I know he meant that their ways of tackling it maybe stupid-ass but it just read badly.
I don't think u read what I said very carefully. Where did I say DJs are the problem??? I NEVER said DJs are the problem, I'm a DJ too. I said people who download illegaly are the problem.
You never addressed the bit about record labels, writers and performers getting their royalties? Thats what all the socities aim for. To protect the people who make the music possible. Without them you and I won't be DJing. They have to get the money they desreve.
I totally agree with you, that DJs are the easy targets and that losers at home downlaoding from lime wire etc are the real problem, but thats life, its impossible to go round everyones house checking hard drives!
I don't know anyone who has joined the PPL unless they are a label, and there are ways around it. For the PPL to actually get you on a night DJing is highly unlikely, not impossible, but very remote chance. The venue should have a license to start with. And as I said previously, if you can prove you have the original then there is NO problem. Otherwise why would anyone download from Beatport etc.? You would be a rare case indeed if you got done for playing out CDs with original proof of purchase! I think they have bigger cases on their mind where people have thousands of files on their hardrive illegaly. People say that you can't play out CDs, you can, if you have purchased the original. The rules aren't crystal clear tho, I agree.
Ok, again, I agree, you should have the right to do what you want with the music and play it as you feel, but from their point of view, once again people are losing out on royalties. You can't do a remix of a tune without permission from the label or artist or whoever owns the copyright. Whether its on your laptop or pressed on to vinyl is irrelevant. It is illegal. A remix is a remix, its just quicker and easier and more convenient on your laptop than the whole vinyl pressing process, but the end result is the same. You are reworking someone elses work without permission.
This whole digital thing is very much in its infancy, and the ways of tackling it obviously are too! Hopefully, over the next year or two it will become a bit more agreeable for everyone and PPL will find a better way of tackling it. Probably a no win battle they are fighting anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Kev Boy For the PPL to actually get you on a night DJing is highly unlikely, not impossible, but very remote chance. The venue should have a license to start with. And as I said previously, if you can prove you have the original then there is NO problem. Otherwise why would anyone download from Beatport etc.? You would be a rare case indeed if you got done for playing out CDs with original proof of purchase! I think they have bigger cases on their mind where people have thousands of files on their hardrive illegaly. People say that you can't play out CDs, you can, if you have purchased the original.

Look- you are talking utter cack (again).
I encounter the PRS and the PPL and (on the odd occasion) trading standards quite often. They make checks across the uk every single night of the week in all sorts of venues.
There IS a problem- and that is they do not like you using non original source material. Regardless of the fact I have downloaded it legally, or the fact I own something daft like 15000+ vinyl records and have simply backed a lot of them up onto vinyl for practical and longevity reasons, they dont care. If its a CDR, or even a white label 12", they moan.
Currently they are trying to tell people that even LEGALLY downloaded tracks are not legal to play out and are for personal use only. They are telling me this- despite ( and i post one random example here) download sites having disclaimers such as the following:

quote:

"5. Permitted Uses: Under this limited license you shall have the right to copy or transfer the relevant digital file to any desktop computer, laptop computer, or playback device owned by you, and/or to a recordable medium (such as CD-R or DVD-R) for your personal use without restriction but subject at all times to the fair use provisions of the United States Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §107. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary stated elsewhere in this Agreement, you shall be entitled to publicly perform Downloads as part of DJ performances provided that you shall submit the playlist information for any use of the Downloads as part of such DJ performances to the relevant performing rights society(ies) as required under applicable laws. For the avoidance of doubt, we shall not be responsible for payment of public performance royalties or phonographic performance royalties to the rel evan t society(ies) with respect to your use of Downloads and you hereby expressly agree to indemnify us against any third party claims arising in connection with your use of Downloads as part of DJ performances."

Now despite the above example, and all similar ones, they STILL try and do you for using CDR's- they will come in and try and confiscate your material, and then they may give you (normally ) 7 days to produce the originals.
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the venue having a licence. That is merely a licence to perform copyrighted material.
As for the royalties- the checks for these are made completely seperately- and that is when someone comes and stands near or in the console and writes down every artist,track and label you play.

You live in a fucking fantasy land. These organistions are out to get cash first and foremost, and artists or Dj's are not their primary concern- The most recent example of this being this digital dj licence turd/scam/ripoff.

Fair enough mate, you obviously know lots more about it than me. Not gonna argue about it. I did a music business course and I'm only saying what I was told! Looks like they need to update their course a bit!
If websites have this stuff about being able to play downloads, and the PRS say no, then wow! yeah problem!
I know a DJ who has been playing for 20 years and only uses CD. He downloads from Napster and he says there are loopholes, and that it is a grey area, not black and white i.e. you can or you can't do it. I think he may have some license from a radio station or something.
Do you know anyone who has had any fines or worse by the PPL etc?

quote:

Originally posted by missbliss I agree with you guys too. Ableton is great for producing and alterning some tracks, but as far as true DJ talent goes - it will always be in the discs, cds or records. Technology will NEVER take out the discs in disc jockeying, it will just become some 'other' kinf of 'performance' that no doubt will be much less respected that true DJ'n. I have no problem with CDs over Vinyl, as long as there's a combination and working knowledge of both. Cheers. Jessie

No offence but you have no idea what youre talking about. TRUE DJING?? hahhaha do you even know what that is first off?

You peole remind me of CD bashers, now some of the worlds best are using them solely...they arent true DJs??...hahah

If I spent 2000 dollars on a bunch of vinyl equipment and another 3000 dollars on records, had to chug around 50 lbs of record and knew my mixes were still limited to some were just impossible to do on vinyl than with CDJs or software...I would be pissed as well.

Ableton will never be in the ranks of true DJs?! =P hahaha

Rememebr when the first rock artists atrted using electric guitars...they were called Judas, where would rock be without it today? Technology moves forward, some people dont.

Youre missing the whole point of what a good DJ is unfortunately. That is something no technology can replace unless it came built with superior AI. Youre so called true DJing is not beat matching unfortunately, its about building musical flows which only musicians who understand music theory and the art of it can do. Its about creating harmonious flows, when mixing thinking of the mext 2-3 tracks, not just the next one coming up, its about using certain melodies to counter or complement others from track to track, creativity (and when youre using vinyl your mixes are already limited before you even start!) and originality its about teasing the listener, using some bass oriented tracks a certain way and using synth oriented tracks a certain way in a good set.

Djing is not some fad where any hick goes to a record shop, saves up 2 years of cash from working at McDonalds, buys techincs, learns to beatmatch and starts performing...thats about 95% of the DJs out there.

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Last edited by sufee_b on Dec-03-2005 at 22:36

"when mixing thinking of the mext 2-3 tracks, not just the next one coming up, its about using certain melodies to counter or complement others from track to track, creativity (and when youre using vinyl your mixes are already limited before you even start!) and originality its about teasing the listener, using some bass oriented tracks a certain way and using synth oriented tracks a certain way in a good set."

Ok see you obviously don't have a fucking CLUE as to what you are talking about because any REAL DJ who PLAYS RECORDS. KNOWS. THAT. THIS. IS. HOW. PHRASE. MIXING. BECOMES. REALITY. AND. WHY. VINYL. IS. BETTER.

The damd grooves on the records in the form of the lighter and darker bands ARE the visual reference to the musical mathematics you moron. YOU DON'T GET THAT WITH ANY KIND OF DIGITAL SYSTEM. EVER.

And as a result all these so-called top jocks are starting to really fucking suck it when they play and all these new twits fail to understand how this mathematical formula works (which cannot be fucked with regardless of who you think you might think you are or who you might know who might be in the know) and are effectively DJING DEAF AND BLIND. It's like reading sheet music guys and building lego at the same time. You can't do it with invisible ink on the paper while forcing the blocks together at an angle. It just doesn't fucking work.

You YES YOU, sufee_b have been disqualified from participating in any further discussion about this because you stuffed your foot in your mouth and I just put it further in so you would know that you did just that.

Got it?

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

quote:

Originally posted by Freak "5. Permitted Uses: Under this limited license you shall have the right to copy or transfer the relevant digital file to any desktop computer, laptop computer, or playback device owned by you, and/or to a recordable medium (such as CD-R or DVD-R) for your personal use without restriction but subject at all times to the fair use provisions of the United States Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §107. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary stated elsewhere in this Agreement, you shall be entitled to publicly perform Downloads as part of DJ performances provided that you shall submit the playlist information for any use of the Downloads as part of such DJ performances to the relevant performing rights society(ies) as required under applicable laws. For the avoidance of doubt, we shall not be responsible for payment of public performance royalties or phonographic performance royalties to the rel evan t society(ies) with respect to your use of Downloads and you hereby expressly agree to indemnify us against any third party claims arising in connection with your use of Downloads as part of DJ performances."

Where the fuck did you get this statement from?? This is such a scam for them to even suggest the things they do in the second paragraph as even remotely being corect. Submitting a playlist for sets by some hack who uses a download services isn't going to get him off the hook from performances royalty fees when from what I have read in other "sections of" some of these download site providers terms of service agreements clearly stating that the tracks obtained off the site through the service are not licensed for public performance or broadcast.


I would really be interested to know where that came from. Please get me the link to what provider is saying that.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

quote:

Originally posted by djlithium The damd grooves on the records in the form of the lighter and darker bands ARE the visual reference to the musical mathematics you moron. YOU DON'T GET THAT WITH ANY KIND OF DIGITAL SYSTEM. EVER.

You are wrong about that. Computer software such as Ableton & Traktor show you what the music is doing, visually. In fact the visual information is far more detailed than what is possible with a vinyl record. Here is an example from Traktor:



Lithium, on another topic, in many of your posts you resort to using insulting names when talking to or about anyone who uses digital methods, or anyone who does not agree with you. That's really low and no way to have a debate or discussion.

God are you people STUPID.

Seeing a waveform of what an audio signal does in this way of displaying it has nothing to do with the musical structure of a track where you can gleen anything out of it quickly and accurrately. It is indeed too much information.

SUCKERS.

And what do I care if you think I am not all nice and fluffy on this subject?

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b No offence but you have no idea what youre talking about. TRUE DJING?? hahhaha do you even know what that is first off? You peole remind me of CD bashers, now some of the worlds best are using them solely...they arent true DJs??...hahah

No they are not. They should now be considered sellouts and traitors... i.e.. the Chris Sheppards of the modern dance world. I assume you know what I mean by that since you are in the center of the universe where all things "faked" in canadian dance music are located.

___________________
DJ Lithium
Black Tiger Recordings | NKME Ltd.
www.djlithium.com | www.blacktigerrecordings.com