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| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
haha my credibility is shot because I KNOW basketball and go out on a limb and say something not many ppl agree with?? Why do I think KOBE BRYANT is the best OFFENSIVE player every 2 play? HERE WE GO
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oh boy now you did it. you had to go there. you had to say kobe is better than jordan? kobe isn't even close to jordan right now. there are some things kobe is better than jordan, but jordan is better in many more areas than kobe will ever be.
let's breakdown your list......
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
1) I dont remember any 7 footers that play like shooting guards back in jordans days (Nowitzki,Wallace)? 7 footers that are freakish athletes that can jump on top of the hoop (Amare, D-Howard, Garnett, J-Oneal)?
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i do agree with you somewhat, but back then, there was also Barkley, Malone, Kemp(he was good back then), and for forwards, and david robinson, a young shaq, the dream hakeem, a young alonzo mourning, and patrick ewing for centers. you can't deny these top tier centers against today's centers right now.
if a team of malone and barkley sqaured up against a team of nowitzki and wallace, i would take malone and barkley anytime. yeah nowitzki and wallace have range, but malone and barkley have about the same amount of range, but the difference is that they fight for the ball harder than nowitzki and wallace.
jordan denied stockton and malone twice, which is a pretty good feat, since utah was as fundamental as a basketball team as you can get (well not as fundamental as the spurs. lol)
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
2) Who were Jordans defenders when he was playing? I cant even think of 1 Shooting Guard that is even CLOSE to the caliber to the likes of hmm lets think here...LEBRON, WADE, MELO, did Jordan have to guard players like those, no KOBE does. Jordan averaged 37.1 points in 1986-87, take a guess who was all defensive team for guards that year? Done thinking....Alvin Robertson and Dennis Johnson? Those players as good as the Shooting guards 2day?
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please. talking about today's defense against defense in the past? are you saying indiana, new york, and detroit's defenses back then were soft against jordan? those are considered the glory days of rivalries. blood,sweat, and tears were on the basketball court every game. those bulls-knicks series in the early 90s were class.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
3)Jordan was surrounded by one of if not THE BEST supporting cast, players that played because they KNEW their role in each game, provide Jordan with defense and score when needed. Does Kobe have that now? Smush is a GREAT point guard who looks to pass first..uh yea right. biggest #1 draft pick EVER kwame brown..all he does is try to show ppl he was worthy of the #1 pick..which will NEVER HAPPEN!!! lamar odom is a scrub and is NO scottie pippen (top 50 greatest players) and would've been much better individual player if he hadn't of played with Jordan, believe that! Sasha the new Steve Kerr..i dont think so? Ronny Turiaf the new Dennis Rodman..not enough hustle..u see a pattern here????
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got a point there. yeah scottie pippen was as much more effective on the floor than odom, but i can't take anything away from odom. he is a better rebounder than pippen, but pippen was a better defender, scorer(not many remember he was pretty effective on the offensive side), and perimeter player.
yeah the bulls had craig hodges, bill cartwright, horace grant, and bj armstrong during his first run, and toni kukoc, ron harper, dennis rodman, and bill wennington during his second run. these guys were role players. not the best players in the nba, but they knew how to play their role. during post shaq, i think kobe got shafted with a supporting cast. however, i do believe next year is going to be a breakout year for andrew bynum. mark my words. he's going to make an impact next year.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
4) Western Conference vs Eastern Conference...DAMN that's hard to choose!
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nope can't compare. yeah the west is pretty strong the past couple of years with san antonio, dallas, phoenix, houston, sacramento during the early 2000s, and minnesota with spree, cassell, wally, and garnett.
however, you had charlotte(mourning, johnson, dell curry, mugsy bouges, etc...), atlanta(wilkins, steve smith, kevin willis, etc ..), new york(tough defense, great coaching, and ewing), indiana with larry brown, reggie miller, mark jackson, and rik smits, and miami with hardaway and mashburn. the west was pretty good in the 90s too with seattle, utah, houston, and phoenix battling it out every year.
in the 90s, there were a lot of solid teams that had potential of winning it all. today, we can mark .500+ teams that don't look well equipped to win a championship.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
5)KOBE 81 pts and didnt even play the entire 4th? His RIDICULOUS 50+ points streak, only Wilt has accomplished more, scoring at least 50 seven straight times. Where's MJ in that discussion?
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we can talk about kobe and his hot streaks, but jordan is remembered for winning basketball games when it counts, showing up in the 4th quarter, and bringing that 2nd wind when the odds are against him. yeah people will talk about kobe's 81 in a sports discussion, but jordan's remarkable performance against utah in the 1997 finals. 38 points with the flu? amazing.
and also, it was 81 against the RAPTORS. call me when kobe drops 60 on a upper tier team. yeah he did drop 62 against dallas in 3 quarters, but that was when nellie was coaching the mavs.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
6) LOL at shaq and kobe comparison...yea kobe won with shaq and shaq one with kobe...shaq also won with the HEAT..and he carried his old body through the ENTIRE playoffs...DWYANE WADE..so SHAQ will NEVER win a championship on his own JUST LIKE KOBE!!!!
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can't talk about last year's championship. the 2006 finals is an asterik in my books, because the heat were given that game. who else can go to the line over 100 times in a 6 game series? a lot of questionable foul calls in my opinion.
and when we are talking about partners, shaq is a better complement than pippen, imo. shaq draws double teams, offering space for kobe to drive to the lane and make plays. pippen doesn't have that type of impace for jordan.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
7)You put Kobe Bryant in 1986-1987 with the skills he posssess today, he EASILY could've matched jordans 37.1 pts per game. He could fuckin do it this god damn year if lakers were in the EAST, give me a break!
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are you kidding me? in 1986-87, there were the great boston celtics and los angelas lakers. looking at the box scores that year, jordan scored 48(@bos vs bos), 41(@lal vs lal), 34(@chi vs bos), 30(@chi vs bos), 27(@bos vs bos), and 33(@chi vs lal). pretty impressive individual performances against two of what's considered the best nba teams of all time.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
8)Kobe and Phil Jackson go into every game knowing they have absolutely NO supporting cast, filled with selfish players that dont play their ROLE! I don't remember hearing any of Jordans players going on a snowboarding trip during the all star game...injuring himself for 2 months and LYING to the team about it! "He admitted last week he lied to the Lakers when he said he fell on a patch of ice. He apologized to coach Phil Jackson and general manager Mitch Kupchak."
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yeah. this is true. well to tell you the truth, the integrity of basketball as a whole has taken a dip, compared to the past, but i still love the game no matter what. i think the difference between kobe and jordan is that jordan would have met with certain players behind closed doors, and got into heavy conversations with them on how they could work well together, and win games. i don't think kobe has the type of superiority in himself to take that action. it seems kobe has given up on this team. jordan would have made all the attempts he could muster with this laker team.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
9) Kobe "the Raper"...hmmm go 2 the MOST ATTRACTIVE females in a bar 2nite..ask them if they'd sleep with KOBE BRYANT, what would their response be? There response would be the same as that dumb bitch in colorado, "OMG WHERE AND WHEN!?!?"
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jordan had rep when he went out to the clubs. too bad jordan is known for his gambling problems more than his escapades out at night. i could post that funny drunk pic of jordan macking it with 2 chics, but that's another story. yeah chics can say they want to have sex with kobe, but jordan has been in many more GQ magazines than kobe.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
10)KOBE is playing against all odds, he's 2 selfish, he's a cheater, elbows too much, not a team player, shoots 2 much, shoots not enough, passes 2 much...needs 2 stop passing and shoot more..what do critics of kobe want him 2 fuckin do!? Give him players that Jordan was surrounded by back in the day and he'd also have 6 fuckin rings!
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this is not a point. this is just a rant. i can't analyze this. however, i do agree with the talent surrounding kobe right now.
| quote: | Originally posted by fmodena369
11)YES you are right about offense including assists...well lets take last nites game...how many shots did kobe take? 13!!!! what was final score 126-98, how many lakers missed WIDE open shots because every single SUNS players attention was on KOBE..there were PLENTY of missed shots, even tho kobe did all he could 2 get them open shots. Sorry no steve kerr sharpshooting, ron harper mid range game, scottie pippens all around superb game, and the hustle of rodman and rebounding and clogging the lane of longley. Game 1 of suns vs lakers...15/33 for 39 points, carrying the entire team on his back throughout the 1st half...sorry he cant do it the entire fuckin game give him sum help..o wait his supporting cast CANT!!! He scores they lose by 8. If kobe passes the ball to an open man 20 times in a game...does that mean he's going to get 20 assists...maybe if your playing on a team like the suns...not the lakers
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yeah we can talk about how important each player is to their individual team, however there is a reason why we remember the lakers getting hammered in games "post shaq" than the early years with chicago in the mid to late 80s when jordan wasn't surrounded by talent, and did not have phil jackson. yeah there were games where the game looked out of hand, and the bulls were down and out. yet, jordan still gave 110% every game no matter what.
i am not taking kobe's talent away from him, and say it's not as great as jordan's. however, when it comes down to the line, there's one significant stat that no one really talks about. jordan was voted in 9 all nba defensive first teams, and was voted defensive player of the year in 1987-88 season. kobe? 2. 9-2. kobe's got a long way to go to reach 9. anybody can shoot the ball and score points, but there are special guys that can give 110% and make plays on both sides of the ball.
yeah it's a long post. fuck it. just scroll down if you don't feel like reading. 
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Good debate and yes onto the playoffs! So happy spurs and mavs won...I wanna see the best teams in the NBA playing eachother in the 2nd round, no golden state or nuggets...who's everyone going for throught the entire playoffs? I'm feeling the Spurs getting past the Nuggets and SUNS with that defense and slowing the game down...suns v mavs cant wait for that and dont care bout eastern conference..
