The problem with that sort of stuff is that you not only change the pitch of the percussion as well, and as a result you can make a driving track sound quite sluggish if you pitch it down due to the change in frequencies.
Ableton does offer this function but I have found if you pitch more than a half a semitone it doesn't actually sound that great.
hmm...just wondering if ne of u guys use the tempo lock function on ur cd decks to adjust the key into what sounds right. This is just something i recently started doing. Listening to track 1's outro b 4 i beat match i adjust the pitch slider to find a key that will sound good i cand tell this by putting both pfl's on. once i like the key i press the tempo lock button and then use the pitch slider to beat match. It works for me imo. Therfore u can rely on ur ear manually to create harmonic mixes, instead of having to classify each of ur tracks into key.
Another reason y i believe vinyl is old fashioned. CD decks enable for bmp to decrease and increase, and it will remain in the same key. FOr example u wont get a chipunk effect if ur bmp is increased heavily.
John O Callahan even says vinyl is over, and the djs of tommorow are all using cd turntables lets face the facts.
Dec-09-2005 17:42
Nemesis44
ZZZZZzzzzzz.....
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Brighton
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Damerchi
hmm...just wondering if ne of u guys use the tempo lock function on ur cd decks to adjust the key into what sounds right. This is just something i recently started doing. Listening to track 1's outro b 4 i beat match i adjust the pitch slider to find a key that will sound good i cand tell this by putting both pfl's on. once i like the key i press the tempo lock button and then use the pitch slider to beat match. It works for me imo. Therfore u can rely on ur ear manually to create harmonic mixes, instead of having to classify each of ur tracks into key.
Another reason y i believe vinyl is old fashioned. CD decks enable for bmp to decrease and increase, and it will remain in the same key. FOr example u wont get a chipunk effect if ur bmp is increased heavily.
John O Callahan even says vinyl is over, and the djs of tommorow are all using cd turntables lets face the facts.
I hate to be the one that informs you but there are actually decks out there that do this as well.
You are also quite severly missinformed with regards to your thoughts on working with harmonics.
The only function served by the Master Tempo (CDJ 1000) is to keep the track in it's original key so unless you have get the key right in the first place it wont help you. It will just make a mix sound as rough as it ever would if it's not correctly matched in terms of key.
There is also a sever draw back with this function as when you exceed a certain level on the pitch slider the Master Tempo will start to make things sound muffled or even give the impression of two badly mixed beats on top of each other. Overall sound quality is reduced. So in fact this is not the be all and end all solution to the problem but just a part of it.
By picking a track that you think is in key you are actualy harmonically mixing anyway. But harmonic mixing is designed to help you to know if it can be done and save you faffing about trying to match keys and lets you get on with the art of DJing.
With regards to your points on the life if vinyl I would say that your arguement may be correct but your justification is thin. Whilst John is a great guy (and used to frequent the production forum) this statement alone does not signal the death of vinyl.
If CDs work for you then fine, I use them too but not 100%, about 50-50 at the moment.
A lot of people don't realise as they are probably too young but in my life I have heard people tell me that CDs are going to take over from vinyl for the best part of 20 years and I still haven't seen it happen. Not saying it wont mind you but in all likelyhood we may see some other technology steal the chance from CDs.
I would also take a close look at what some people can do with vinyl before you dismiss it off hand like that.
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: On a plane probably...
quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis44
A lot of people don't realise as they are probably too young but in my life I have heard people tell me that CDs are going to take over from vinyl for the best part of 20 years and I still haven't seen it happen. Not saying it wont mind you but in all likelyhood we may see some other technology steal the chance from CDs.
Im not as old as you nem but I agree- Ive been hearing it for the last 7 or so yrs- yet it still hasnt happened.
A lot of people on this forum fail to remember the US' biggest market- Hip Hop and urban stuff.....which is for the most part still vinyl
Dec-10-2005 14:13
Kev Boy
Senior tranceaddict
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: UK
This business about adjusting the pitch till you find a compatable key is dodgy. Firstly, not many people can do that easily, but more importantly, it will only work if you have a key that is close to the track your mixing out of. If its say Am outro and a Fm intro, then your gonna have to adjust the Fm track way too much (about 24% to get to Am). Not good! If you know the key before hand... no pain involved then!
I think you can only lock the original key of a track on CDJs can't you?? Not sure. Don't think you can adjust then lock it?
Key Lock on vinyl turntables is not that good though. Excellent on CDJs. I have stanton st150, and its ok, and I'm told that its better than Numark locking system.
Dec-13-2005 13:36
burner69
tranceaddict
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff, Wales
FFS! Just typed all this out...then it asked me to log in before I posted... now it is gone! Here we go again.
Anyone notice any mistakes, please let me know
Tiesto: Walking on clouds 137BPM Bm
Nyana 137BPM Cm
Forever Today 137BPM F#
Love Comes Again 137BPM Gm
In My Memory (Airwave Mix) 135BPM Gm
(V-One Mix) 135BPM Ebm
Adagio (Original) 141BPM Ebm/Bbm
(FredBaker) 140BPM Bbm
(Danjo & Styles) 142BPM Bbm
(Phynn) 140BPM Bbm
PvD: Nothing But You (Club Mix) 140BPM Ebm
(Vandit) 140BPM Ebm
(Cirrus) 131BPM Ebm
LiKwon: Point Zero '05 (Ag & Nel Mix) 140BPM Bm
(Leama & Moor) 131BPM Bm
Markus Schulz: Without You Near (Coldharbour) 134BPM Fm
(Gab & Dred Mix) 133BPM Fm
*Phew*
Dec-27-2005 00:15
Nemesis44
ZZZZZzzzzzz.....
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Brighton
Nice job.
Looks right for the most part.
Haven't got the chance to check at the moment but I have a sneaky feeling that Cafe Del Mar is in a different key (Fm but that could be my brain overloading). Same with Sublime (But different key) although I could be imagining it. I will update when I get home and can tell you for sure.
Ferry Corsten - Sublime Gm (Both mixes)
Energy 52 - Cafe Del Mar three in one mix (Fm)
Tiesto - Adagio for Strings (D#m)
Tiesto - Love Comes Again (Cm)
Vinyls pitched at 0.
If you are using MP3 the original ripper might have pitched them up prior to encoding.
No, I used vinyl, pitched at 0%, and.. haha... a 40 year old metronome to do the BPMing. I'm pretty sure some of those are a little way out (Today I was pitching a tune up that I should have been pitching down to beatmatch it... if you get me)
With regards Adagio for strings being a D#m... surely that's the same as an Ebm? Or am I forgetting the importance of the full chord of keys fitting songs... I dunno...
By the way, I started keying my songs yesturday, and had my first attempt at a 'harmonic' mix today, sooo much better. Nice to learn all this in my early mixing days
Dec-27-2005 18:22
Nemesis44
ZZZZZzzzzzz.....
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Brighton
quote:
Originally posted by burner69
With regards Adagio for strings being a D#m... surely that's the same as an Ebm? Or am I forgetting the importance of the full chord of keys fitting songs... I dunno...
Doh!
Yes in principle it's the same thing, sorry should have been paying attention. Although I do believe the correct name for the original original is Barber's Adagio for strings in D# minor.
I'm not one for spliting hairs and either key you classify the track in it still brings exactly the same result.
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
For all of you who are open to new ways of mixing, There's the possibility to mix with Traktor DJ Studio, it offers a nearly perfect possibility to change tempo and key separately with the phase vocoder algoritm. That's the way i'm working now. For all vinyl-junkies here it offers also a possibility to add final scratch.
___________________
Trance isn't just music.
Trance is Life.
Jan-01-2006 16:20
Nemesis44
ZZZZZzzzzzz.....
Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Brighton
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Subnautic
For all of you who are open to new ways of mixing, There's the possibility to mix with Traktor DJ Studio, it offers a nearly perfect possibility to change tempo and key separately with the phase vocoder algoritm. That's the way i'm working now. For all vinyl-junkies here it offers also a possibility to add final scratch.
True,
Ableton does this too.
But I have found that it's all well and good as long as you don't have to pitch the key of a record down. The draw back with this type of mixing is that I find that if you mess around with the original key too much you change the feel of the percussion, and if it is changed down you can make energy filled tracks sound a little sluggish.
but I agree- Ive been hearing it for the last 7 or so yrs- yet it still hasnt happened.
