You know what, it's like arguing with children trying to reason with you guys, i will leave you and the other extremists in this thread to fight amongst yourself. If you can't see the disproportinate damage that Israel has inflicted on Palestine and now Lebanon you either failed basic arithmetic or lack common sense, and therefore i will not waste my time with you.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan For me myself who didn't hold any animosity against Israel in the past, I find these actions to be beyond disgusting and will never hold a decent view of that nation again. Yeah these acts will get rid of the terrorists, fucking joke. There is no seeking of empathy in such images that is grounded in reality. Watching this bullshit will make me devote myself to peace activism because this is fucked up to the highest degree. Only a few more weeks to accomplish the goal according to the Israelis.

NYCTrancefan, this is horrible, really. (not being sarcastic or anything).
but then again I ask, what can you possibly do? ynet has an article about IDF targets...and it says:
1000 targets were bombed in Lebanon
180 out of them are missiles hideouts
350 out of them are missile-launching areas
250 out of them are bridges and roads
200 out of them are Hezbollah operation buildings (60 out of those 200 are in southern Beirut)
do the math...20 targets out of the 1000 shouldn't have been bombed. that's still a lot, but it happens. besides, it has been said several times that IDF has warned civilians about the targets it's about to bomb, giving them several hours to go someplace safe.

on the other hand, Hezbollah fired 800 missiles on civilian targets in Israel since the beginning of this 'war'. if it wasn't for the IDF rear area headquarters warnings, casualties numbers here could have been worse.

I really feel for the Lebanese people. but if you read one of my posts the previous pages, you'd see that I wrote that Hezbollah blocked roads for civilians who wanted to flee to the north, away from the bombing targets (it was on the news couple of hours earlier today). how's that for an organization that supposed to 'care' for the Lebanese people?

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Originally posted by epsilon1 there are views like these on our side either, you dont see us running and showing them. Only pathetic inhumane ppl show these photos. Hezbollah has taken the war to the lebanese citizens..?

You make a very key point, one can fault the Lebanese government for not being able to do more about keeping a lid on Hezbollah, with that said what was the rest of the world doing to help Lebanon to strengthen itself to be able to deal with Hezbollah. I have said it many times Lebanon is a fragile place, that can only be plunged into further bloodshed even if this scenariou subsides. Were the U.S, Europeans, U.N. helping to strengthen the Lebanese government to be able to deal with a group like Hezbollah. Where was the support after the Syrians left or was it just ignored and led to what we see now after all we all knew Hezbollah was on the border with Israel. The Lebanese couldn't confront Hezbollah from a postion of weakness but only one of stength and the former condition is the one it was governing in.

Unless Israel gets a lucky break and finds where those soldiers are I don't see how they are getting them back, so I imagine their response was like the berserk, fired mailman that returns to shoot up the place to make a point. Point made and far more innocent Lebanese have been at the end of that than Hezbollah. Hey Israel did say it was a war so from their perspective they have no quarems about the response they enacted.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

yes, the lebanese democracy is extremely fragile, yet most of them and the public support Hezbollah, which is indirectly devastating Lebanon, why is that?

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A.K.A Idan

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Originally posted by ronk NYCTrancefan, this is horrible, really. (not being sarcastic or anything). but then again I ask, what can you possibly do? ynet has an article about IDF targets...and it says: 1000 targets were bombed in Lebanon 180 out of them are missiles hideouts 350 out of them are missile-launching areas 250 out of them are bridges and roads 200 out of them are Hezbollah operation buildings (60 out of those 200 are in southern Beirut) do the math...20 targets out of the 1000 shouldn't have been bombed. that's still a lot, but it happens. besides, it has been said several times that IDF has warned civilians about the targets it's about to bomb, giving them several hours to go someplace safe. on the other hand, Hezbollah fired 800 missiles on civilian targets in Israel since the beginning of this 'war'. if it wasn't for the IDF rear area headquarters warnings, casualties numbers here could have been worse. I really feel for the Lebanese people. but if you read one of my posts the previous pages, you'd see that I wrote that Hezbollah blocked roads for civilians who wanted to flee to the north, away from the bombing targets (it was on the news couple of hours earlier today). how's that for an organization that supposed to 'care' for the Lebanese people?

Hey I wish the IDF and Hezbollah could square off and settle this issue, but that won't happen unless ground troops enter Lebanon. I see it from the perspective of more Western minded Lebanese I guess who don't want anything to do with Hezbollah, wants to see Lebanon rebuild before this happened and don't subscribe to any religious notion of destroying another nation. There are two sides to a story of course. I just wished that a society so varied didn't have to suffer to this extent because one of the parties in that nation operates on fundamentalism as opposed to peace and security. Moreover the greater dangers lies in quite possibly Iran in relation to Israel and this proxy war is costing people's lives who don't share in Lebanon the ideals of Iran except Hezbollah.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

and by reimbursed, venom means given the right to hunt and fish without regulation, steal cars, riding lawmowers and bikes without re-course, occupy legally purchased land, claim it as their own, ransack the buildings on said property and loot their valuables, cut down hydro transmission towers to use as road blocks, assault the media and non natives who protest tehir actions, and get away with it all....... and thats just the tip of the iceberg.......... i havent even gotten to the native colors........ labatt blue and labatt blue light

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

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Originally posted by venomX No, im not by any means excusing the colonization that took place in America, and no im not by any means calling for a disbandment of Israel which are both things you seem to be asuming. And no i do not think giving them money fixes thing, I was making a point that the analogy you used is not parallel to the case you were describing. No onto more important things, even regardless of the fact that they "are not a nationality or tribe", they are still human beings and deserve to be treated with dignity. Yes, their form of retaliation is innapropiate but the more i read on this whole situation the more i tend to shy away from siding with Israel. What the IDF has been doing for years now is inhumane, and dont even start with the "israeli casualties" because the palestinian "collateral damage" is in ridiculously higher numbers. Now, if you dont agree that these people should be treated better and another solution should be sought to this conflict and that Israel having the upper hand should curve the violence that they exert on palestine than we can call it a day.

YOu sound like a reasonable guy. Now, while I don't condone killings of innocent civilians, what you and your like-minded fellows here fail to see is a simple point.

We are not talking about a conventional warfare here. We are talking about militia/partisan/splinter cell type of situation. I am sure that if Israel had a choice between fighting uniformed soldiers on a battlefield there would not be such a high rate of civilian casualties.

You are also forgetting that it is a WAR. It's not a confrontation, it's not a diplomatic issue, it's an ongoing war. Palestinians want Israel gone. Not parts of it, not neighborhoods ALL OF IT.

You surrender an inch, they want extra mile. You surrender a mile, they want extra 100. When do you stop surrendering? Do you suggest that Israel just says: "Ok boys and girls, we tried shit didn't work out. I think we should all just move to Florida - same sunny weather, pristine beaches, plenty of swamps to turn into desirable property. Besides, most of our relatives are already there"?

Average Palestinians may want this conflict to end but extremist Palestinians don't want it. They had a chance to have the same rights as average Israelis - even freedom of religion (something that's rarely present in Arab countries). They were offered options to co-exist. "NO, we don't want to be part of Israel - we want it ALL. Oh and p.s. we want you dead too".

Coming back to the issue - Palestinian or Lebanese terrorists intentionally position themselves among civilians to increase casualties. HEZBOLAH AND HAMAS are responsible for civilian deaths. They know that if they strike from civilian positions, Israel will retaliate and will shoot back. They know civilians will get killed. What do they do? They continue using human shields. What does that tell you? It's not like it's any news. So, who's a bigger villain? A country that's provoked to shoot back or terrorists who provoke it and then hide among the innocents?

Get your shit straight. Also, don't forget that alot of these accounts are reported by questionable sources and I would not be surprised if the count was purposely exaggerated, not that it makes it any better but still - the theory is not that far-fetched.

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No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

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Originally posted by epsilon1 yes, the lebanese democracy is extremely fragile, yet most of them and the public support Hezbollah, which is indirectly devastating Lebanon, why is that?

Which only serves to further highlight my point of offering more support to Lebanon on the part of the international community as opposed to ignoring it after Syria left. What does it say about the government if as you claim Hezbollah was drawing the bulk of support, what were they doing that the government wasn't doing in the nation. Looking now one should have realized this but as with many things its too little too late and I just hope this situation ends soon.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Ronk, you, the palenstines you are all part of the propoganda machine...There are many logical people in this thread with no emotional attachment to the issue, who have provided facts that both sides have dismissed, due to being brainwashed. Your version of history is somewhat warped and distorted. I dont blame you for that either.

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Oh, life is bigger ,It's bigger than you,And you are not me,The lengths that I will go to, The distance in your eyes ,Oh no, I've said too much, I set it up

That's me in the corner, That's me in the spotlight, I'm Losing my religion, Trying to keep up with you ,And I don't know if I can do it, Oh no, I've said too much,I haven't said enough, I thought that I heard you laughing, I thought that I heard you sing, I think I thought I saw you try.

But that was just a dream, That was just a dream, But that was just a dream, Try, cry, why try? That was just a dream ,Just a dream, just a dream, Dream

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Hey I wish the IDF and Hezbollah could square off and settle this issue, but that won't happen unless ground troops enter Lebanon.

if Israel will enter ground troops, it probably will be regarded as an 'occupation', which will 'give' Hezbollah legitimacy to its actions.

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Originally posted by epsilon1 yes, the lebanese democracy is extremely fragile, yet most of them and the public support Hezbollah, which is indirectly devastating Lebanon, why is that?

havent we already established that this isnt accurate?

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Originally posted by Epicurus the Lebanese parliament is dominated by Anti-Syrian members

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Originally posted by Paulie Your version of history is somewhat warped and distorted. I dont blame you for that either.

look, I just went over it on wikipedia and britannica. nothing's wrong. (however I do know that I omitted subjects and events that in my opinion weren't that important for my point).

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