How is it then that countries with lower levels of religious indoctrination tend to perform better over all than countries with higher religious indoctrination? Show me countries that have a very high percentage of religious affiliation and do well?

Granted, countries that do not have high religious affiliations are not always that great, but it seems almost universal that countries that have a very high religious affiliation almost always have a very shit quality of life.

Here is a nice little article for you.

http://www.scienceandreligiontoday....ortance-of-god/

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby How is it then that countries with lower levels of religious indoctrination tend to perform better over all than countries with higher religious indoctrination? Show me countries that have a very high percentage of religious affiliation and do well? Granted, countries that do not have high religious affiliations are not always that great, but it seems almost universal that countries that have a very high religious affiliation almost always have a very shit quality of life.

I'd like to see a source on that but it actually sounds reasonable. The measures you suggest for attaining that, however, don't sound reasonable. In fact, I'd suggest that contempt actually validates prominent religious narratives that justify the myopic world views and narrow-minded political thinking you're railing against.

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I am not sure what other measures you could take...

The religious zealots that are here now are based off the ones who got kicked out of europe or left because they felt it wasn't religious enough... Thats how the europeans solved it, their religious nuts came here (except for Italy, Italy sucks).

If we do not shun them in to keeping their beliefs out of other peoples lives and out of the progression of our society based on sound ideas based in science and fact than what other options do we have? They refuse to be educated, they refuse logical arguments, they refuse to let their children decide their own paths (though they often end up failing at that)... I really see no way to get their influence down with out shunning them and ostracizing them and generally making them feel like they do not have a right to espouse their stupidity.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I am not sure what other measures you could take... ... If we do not shun them...

That's a failure of imagination. I'm not saying that religious influence should be accepted in politics but that's a small part of the big picture, particularly when you have politicians, being funded by corporations, who play into religious narratives. You want to attack religious people but you're aiming at a symptom rather than the cause of the problem.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker That's a failure of imagination. I'm not saying that religious influence should be accepted in politics but that's a small part of the big picture, particularly when you have politicians, being funded by corporations, who play into religious narratives. You want to attack religious people but you're aiming at a symptom rather than the cause of the problem.

Religious people vote in the worst of the corporate puppet politicians. Those politicians wrap themselves in the flag and thump the bible and exploit the ignorance and stupidity of the common conservative religious voter.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Religious people vote in the worst of the corporate puppet politicians. Those politicians wrap themselves in the flag and thump the bible and exploit the ignorance and stupidity of the common conservative religious voter.

Have you ever read What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank?

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Have you ever read What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank?

No.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby No.

The reason I asked is that it speaks to a lot of what you're trying to talk to. The problem I see with your arguments is that you're blaming religious people solely for the current political climate. What you're failing to understand is that the problem, directly related to fundamentalist Christians, is small in comparison to the amalgamation of problems contributing to wider political discord. There is little doubt that they are a numerically important cross-section. Unfortunately, they are not the source of the problem and the problem is actually a lot of problems relating to the political discourse in this country.

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I think if you're pissed at Christians voting conservative and what not why not do something about it. Start a club/movement/collective.

Time to haul your ass out of the intellectual armchair, put down the pipe and get your hands dirty.

Just my opinion.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby How is it then that countries with lower levels of religious indoctrination tend to perform better over all than countries with higher religious indoctrination? Show me countries that have a very high percentage of religious affiliation and do well? Granted, countries that do not have high religious affiliations are not always that great, but it seems almost universal that countries that have a very high religious affiliation almost always have a very shit quality of life.

Bringing it down to a Smaller scale, let's say the united states, the more Conservative states per say performed better than the more liberal states in the economic dowturn?.. Just an observation :/

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Originally posted by LiquidX Bringing it down to a Smaller scale, let's say the united states, the more Conservative states per say performed better than the more liberal states in the economic dowturn?.. Just an observation :/

There really isn't that much correlation between high church attendance in individual states and their economic status.