quote:

Originally posted by Bizz I think another question you might want to ask: should I go into engineering? Right now, it's exam time, taking comp eng. at U of T, and I want to kill myself.

Good luck...

How do you like engineering at Toronto?

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Russo Good luck... How do you like engineering at Toronto?

I can write a very long post about U of T engineering, but I won't Overall, I would have to say that there have been no surprises.

If you want to do well, expect to devote a lot of your life indoors, studying.

Unfortunately, engineers do comprise mostly of males (although the first years that came in this year have suddenly changed that trend -- wish I was in first year). Because most of them came in with high grades, they expect high grades in university. No matter where you go then, UW or U of T, expect lots of competition. What I noticed though and what really pisses me off is that engineers talk more about grades than anything else (e.g. more than current events, or even the actual course material, lol) and at that point you know that the company you're in is relatively a geekfest.

The competition, the course load and difficulty, and the sheer size of the university promotes antisocial behaviour. A lot of people at U of T do complain that there is no sense of community, and it is partially true. What you need to do to avoid this is to get involved in things going on in and around campus. It's up to you whether you want to sacrifice life for grades.

With respect to physical surroundings, the engineering buildings are damn ugly compared to the rest of campus (except some of the new buildings that have been built recently).

Mentioned before, though, it's very easy to get distracted at U of T. To me this is a good thing And in the end, everyone taking engineering at U of T vie for a common goal: the iron ring. U of T is known worldwide for its engineering program (especially Engineering Science) so once you graduate, you will be getting the prestige associated with the name. I know a lot of engineers across Ontario, and U of T Engineering appears to be one of the most difficult programs province-wide. This is the price you'll be paying for the name.

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Chris
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hey i unscrewed a washer from a faucet pipe in my bathroom that once looked like an engineering iron ring ..

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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL hey i unscrewed a washer from a faucet pipe in my bathroom that once looked like an engineering iron ring ..

iron ring material symbolically comes from a bridge that collapsed due to poor design.. a symbol of what an engineer vows to never do again.. but then again, washers from faucet pipes could have came from that same material. If I paid $30,000+ tuition over four years for a faucet pipe washer......

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Chris
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Thanks for the response, Bizz

quote:

Originally posted by Bizz Unfortunately, engineers do comprise mostly of males (although the first years that came in this year have suddenly changed that trend -- wish I was in first year).

Is it fair to assume that the same changes have happened in Waterloo?

Engineers talk a lot about marks... but are the grades you get really important though?

This may sound like a really dumb question, but what do you actually learn? (But first, what year are you in?) Are you building hardware? Doing some work with photonics? Or just doing a lot of math?

I don't consider grades to be at all too important (passing is more important, which is a prereq. for getting your degree and iron ring) but a lot of job consideration comes from your transcripts. So if you want to have some decent summer job offers you probably want to good grades in each of your first three years of undergrad. Also, U of T Engineering likes to rank students, so grades can really bring out the worst in us (i.e. you may consider grades to be important if you don't feel like being ranked at the bottom of your class).

What we learn, I'm not exactly sure, lol. But it's a heck of a lot of theory for the first two years (I'm in my third) and creative application of the theory in labs is minimal. Most lab work is systematically done. Everyone in the class creates the same AM Modulator, Data Compression program, etc. Only in fourth year you will have the opportunity to do a design project. However, I'm only describing my program (Comp Eng.) so if you're considering going to U of T for Eng Sci, there may be more opportunities for working on more creative projects. But fortunately, it's not all math -- there are quite a few labs, most are interesting and practical. In essence, if you put all the labs together in my program, you can consider yourself building hardware components.

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Chris
ICQ | MSN | WWW | E-mail | Direct Connect Hub | TA United Cancer Research Team

quote:

Originally posted by Bizz I don't consider grades to be at all too important (passing is more important, which is a prereq. for getting your degree and iron ring) but a lot of job consideration comes from your transcripts. So if you want to have some decent summer job offers you probably want to good grades in each of your first three years of undergrad. Also, U of T Engineering likes to rank students, so grades can really bring out the worst in us (i.e. you may consider grades to be important if you don't feel like being ranked at the bottom of your class). What we learn, I'm not exactly sure, lol. But it's a heck of a lot of theory for the first two years (I'm in my third) and creative application of the theory in labs is minimal. Most lab work is systematically done. Everyone in the class creates the same AM Modulator, Data Compression program, etc. Only in fourth year you will have the opportunity to do a design project. However, I'm only describing my program (Comp Eng.) so if you're considering going to U of T for Eng Sci, there may be more opportunities for working on more creative projects. But fortunately, it's not all math -- there are quite a few labs, most are interesting and practical. In essence, if you put all the labs together in my program, you can consider yourself building hardware components.

btw. juss to let everyone know that the bizz has finally finished his exams which allows him to spend the time to type all this speigl..

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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL btw. juss to let everyone know that the bizz has finally finished his exams which allows him to spend the time to type all this speigl..

spiegl? yea, no exams = more free time!!

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Chris
ICQ | MSN | WWW | E-mail | Direct Connect Hub | TA United Cancer Research Team

Yeah, I completely agree with Bizz about grades.. Especially now when economic situation sucks, you need everything you can get(including marks) in order to have a chance for a good job.

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My Blog: durafei.blogspot.com - Last Update March 23, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Yeah, I completely agree with Bizz about grades.. Especially now when economic situation sucks, you need everything you can get(including marks) in order to have a chance for a good job.

Personally I disagree that grades mean a hell of a lot these days. Unless you're at THE top of your program (and I am not willing to work that hard), most companies don't even look at your grades anymore. There are so few jobs available in the industry that most of them just stamp down "3 years of experience" as a requirement for the job and turn down everybody else, so what it all comes down to is once again "who you know" in the industry.

IMO it's a better idea to spend your time in university trying to make connections through profs, etc. I see people graduating with honours and still not getting jobs. In the end, when we're talking about jobs, only a graduate degree is really going to put you in demand. IF you plan to go for a graduate degree, then yes you might want to worry about the kind of marks you're getting. Of course, the simpler route to getting a good job would just be to find one in the USA or even in Western Europe, where there are TONS.

Anyone remember the survey which showed that mostly rich people consider success to come from hard work, and mostly poorer people consider it to come from higher education?

(By the way, I'm in electrical engineering with good marks, so none of this is jealous harping - rather, I'm bitter because I DID put in all this work in university and I feel that it's been absolutely worthless in the long run.)

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut IMO it's a better idea to spend your time in university trying to make connections through profs, etc. I see people graduating with honours and still not getting jobs. In the end, when we're talking about jobs, only a graduate degree is really going to put you in demand. IF you plan to go for a graduate degree, then yes you might want to worry about the kind of marks you're getting. Of course, the simpler route to getting a good job would just be to find one in the USA or even in Western Europe, where there are TONS.

Connections is definitely the most important thing that will guarantee a successfull career. Marks and your achievements is 2nd most important thing.. This term I got two interviews with Sun Microsystems and Amazon strictly because of my relatively high marks.. Though my experience wasn't bad either, if it wasn't for the marks, there is no way I'd get those interviews(I'm basing this assumption on the fact that I know a few other people with similar experience but lower marks who applied for those jobs as well, but didn't get an interview).

As far as being the top of your program.. Hard work won't make you the top of your program. Your talent will. And if you are talented enough to be the top of your program, you don't need to work very hard. I know the top 2-3 people in UW CS, and all of them are slackers. But then again, they are super smart so they can afford to slack off.

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My Blog: durafei.blogspot.com - Last Update March 23, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Connections is definitely the most important thing that will guarantee a successfull career. Marks and your achievements is 2nd most important thing.. This term I got two interviews with Sun Microsystems and Amazon strictly because of my relatively high marks.. Though my experience wasn't bad either, if it wasn't for the marks, there is no way I'd get those interviews(I'm basing this assumption on the fact that I know a few other people with similar experience but lower marks who applied for those jobs as well, but didn't get an interview). As far as being the top of your program.. Hard work won't make you the top of your program. Your talent will. And if you are talented enough to be the top of your program, you don't need to work very hard. I know the top 2-3 people in UW CS, and all of them are slackers. But then again, they are super smart so they can afford to slack off.

Are you talking about co-op positions? 'Cause actually I did neglect to mention co-ops and internships and I guess marks are important for that... I didn't end up trying to do either. This is true though.

And you're right, it definitely does take talent to be at the top, but when they give hours and hours of busy-work that teaches you nothing and just wastes your time but is worth 10-20% of your mark, talent alone won't get you there (unless you blast assignments off of other talented people )

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here