I think there are many good point made in this thread, however I believe this guy, off of the matrix board, has come up with a very good explanation of it all:

Arsalan wrote:

I watch The Matrix Reloaded last night. No words to describe it. I have many questions in my head right now. I'll tell you

what I believe is the mystery in the sotry.

First a PERFECT WORLD MATRIX was built, but it didn't work.

The architech tells Neo that humans have problems assimilating the matrix becuase they have to be able to CHOOSE, to have a

PURPOSE in life (please help me complete the dialog between Neo and the Architect, english is not my mother language).

Assuming this is a fact it explains why the first Matrix didn't work. In a perferct world humans can't make choices, if they

did then it wouldn't be perfect beacuse humans are not perfect. There is no PURPOSE either, since a PURPOSE is the need to

change something that is not good, to improve things, obviously nothing can be improved in a PERFECT world.

So then they build a second type of Matrix, an inperfect world. Still there are some humans that don't accept the program.

These are people like Morpheus, Trinity and all the others that were freed(?) from the Matrix. According to the Architect

this flaw in the program is what makes the program run. The Architect also claims that this flaw also generates a

singularity, Neo. But I'm not sure about the truth of this stament (more below)

Now the key point is how does the MATRIX keep these people from destroying the Matrix. Well it gives them a PURPOSE. the

Matrix lets this people try to destroy it, or in what's even better it makes them believe that they can destroy it, when they

actually can't.

So now comes the interesting part:

* There are two (maybe more and I believe that in the end we will never know) virtual reality worlds and a real world.

* The first VR world is the Matrix as we knew it in the first movie. But as I argued before some pleople are born this matrix

that have the need to detroy it, to become free. THis people are freed from the first Matrix and move on to the second one.

* The second Matrix is the "real world" shown in the first and second movie. So ZION is a VR city in the second matrix. In

the second Matrix you collect all the rebel minds that are struggling to become free and give them a PURPOSE, to destroy the

first Matrix. This is just a way to stop these minds from trying to become completly free from the second Matrix.

* Proof that there are two VR worlds

- Neo stops the centinels. Who could he stop them with out being plugged to the Matrix?
- Agent Smith hacks in to a human being. That means that the human is still plugged to the system.

So now you say very nice but what does this has to do with anything.

* A PURPOSE is not only an objective, it is also the belief that the objective can be accomplished. So the Matrix generates

the ORACLE and NEO (Yes! NEO is also a program)

* The ORACLE is a program that guides the rebels, it keeps the distracted searching and fighting for something that keeps the

away from the truth (that they are slaves,..., born in a prison for their minds).

* There is the need to reset the matrix from time to time. Just like with your computer, and restart from scratch. There are

to many thing in the Windows registry, programs that were not removed porperly (like the French guy). That is when NEO comes

in.

* Neo is a computer program designed to believe he is a human being. His function is to destroy the Matrix. So that it can be

reloaded.

WHAT???

Yes The One is a program. WHY???

* How else can he do what he does? I don't buy that story that computer programs are built on rules. The human being is also

built on rules.

* The Architect described him as the result of an equation.

* The Architect is allways following Neo. He was watching him in the first movie too!!! Who do I know? The Architect is in

the room with all the screens. Those screens appear in the first movie at the beging of the scene in which Neo is questioned

by the Agents. Also we see all of Neo's life in the screens. He can even see his dreams since we see Trinity falling down the

window.

* The previous Neos were identical to him.

The next thing has to do with the idea that Neo is a computer program and that there are two Matrices.

* In the Matrix Morpheous tells a story, and I quote:

" When the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake

the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us, taught us the truth."

* If he was really a man and was born inside the matrix who could he break free from his shell in the real world?

* If that man was THE ONE, why didn't he free that human race? He was not programmed to do so. His function was to reset the

matrix.

So what is the point now, is the human race trapped in this vicious circle?

Obiously not, this is still an american film and things allways end well. What we are seeing now is like the Empire Strikes

Back. In the third movie we will see Neo finally destroy the Matrix. But how? Why doesn't Neo end up doing what he was

programmed to do, like the five Neos before him? The answer is Trinity. think about. How did all this started? AI, a computer

that learned how to think conquers the human race. Now a Computer that learns how to love saves the human race.

Please feel free to comment on anything on this post. I only watched the movie once and didn't get many of the dialogues.

personally, i think the matrix inside a matrix inside a matrix inside a etc... is a cop out. a lame way to put a spin on things. of course people will think that "ooh, he can use his powers in the 'real world' but how? omg, he's stil in the matrix" but to me that's way too easy. i'd want more substance in the actual story, rather than that recursive idea. tho that's probably what they'll go with, or have gone with, for revolutions.

i dunno, seems like there could have been much more to it than rather saying that they're still in the matrix. seems kinda cheap to me.

but i can't come up with a better story, so i'll stop complaining and wait for more cool effects. but as smitty said, the cg stuff takes away from the true feeling of the movie. imo, matrix 1 had much cooler scenes. bullet time, the morpheus rescue, all those they used conventional means of capturing the scenes, and then just tweaked it with minimal cg to make them look smoother. in matrix 2, damn, very easy to tell most was cg. blah.

it's late, and i'm rambling...

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Here's what I truly think they've gone with for revolutions, its similar to my previous idea, except there is no matrix within a matrix. The real world is indeed the real world, but Neo is a machine, a cybornetic organism if you will, looks human but isn't. Purposely designed to lead these people and distract them as I mentioned in my previous theory. He is then given a choice to repopulate Zion, in order to continue the process of cleaning the matrix of potential threats, which he has done in his 5 other life times, however this time he has learned how to love so he chooses to save Trinity instead. Eventually he will come to the realization that he is a machine, but he will not turn on humanity because of his love for it. Instead he will, as morpheus says in the trailer for revolutions, "fight for us".

quote:

Originally posted by itikia The way I figure it, Neo is a machine and always was in the first place. This is why no human can do the things he is capable of doing. If you notice, throughout part 1 and part 2 you always hear the machines saying "He's only human". You hear this line over and over again. Why would they continue saying that? Neo being a machine would also explain his ability to emit an EMP when he was out of the matrix and destroy the sentinals, at the same time draining him of energy. EDIT: I just noticed something in the Matrix: Revolutions trailer that kind of confirms my suspicions. Right before Neo fight Smith, you see Morpheus saying, "He fights for us". He is refering to 'us' as the humans, why would he say that if he's talking about Neo? He's a machine I tell you!

hehe its funny cuz thats me and my friend were thinking today and we saw the trailer and morpheus does say that so that did confirm it!

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quote:

Originally posted by Resnick the matrix within matrix thing fits in really well, but i dont think thats what actually happens.. and neo is human, not a machine, thats the whole point, that humans are stronger than machines...he just sorta binds with the matrix cuz his powers are too great and he cant control it, so he could affect the machines in the real world

look who it is

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quote:

Originally posted by itikia Arsalan wrote:

No I Didn't , i would never type that much !

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I'm still confused about something...

The people that reject the matrix, like Morpheus etc. live in the real-world and attempt to destroy the matrix.

But... why? Why would the machines allow them to be free, if they pose a threat? I can't see a machine allowing them to live outside the matrix, if they could just kill them for good...



Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice...even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Russo I'm still confused about something... The people that reject the matrix, like Morpheus etc. live in the real-world and attempt to destroy the matrix. But... why? Why would the machines allow them to be free, if they pose a threat? I can't see a machine allowing them to live outside the matrix, if they could just kill them for good... Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice...even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster.

You have to understand that letting those who reject the matrix to be free is the only way the machines can distinguish between those who accept and those who reject the program. If they don't allow these people to be free of the matrix, then in a sense they are left unchecked because they will remain inside the matrix and eventually corrupt the rest of the crop; in other words the entire population eventually rejects the matrix.

So they devise a filtering system, those who reject the matrix are filtered out to Zion for destruction once a certain level is met. This filtering system is then kept intact by introducing Neo into the equation.

Hope that helps, but of course I may be totally wrong hahaha
We'll see when revolutions comes out

Last edited by Möbius on May-19-2003 at 22:59

quote:

Originally posted by DJLocoMoco You have to understand that letting those who reject the matrix to be free is the only way the machines can distinguish between those who accept and those who reject the program. If they don't allow these people to be free of the matrix, then in a sense they are left unchecked because they will remain inside the matrix and eventually corrupt the rest of the crop; in other words the entire population eventually rejects the matrix. So they devise a filtering system, those who reject the matrix are filtered out to Zion for destruction once a certain level is met. This filtering system is then kept intact by introducing Neo into the equation. Hope that helps, but of course I may be totally wrong hahaha We'll see when revolutions comes out

That makes perfect sense... I should have realized that, but I didn't

As to whether that's right or not... your explanation makes sense, but there may some other reason to be revealed later. Hmm...

But now I'm confused about how one goes about rejecting the matrix...

Now that I think of it, your explanation still doesn't completely work. In terms of corrupting people, people who reject the matrix and are removed from still have a higher chance of "corrupting" people if they are removed because they can always go back in. I don't know about you, but I'd be more apt to incite "riots" against unbeatable foes (ie. agents) if I had an escape route (ie. picking up the phone).

Back to how one goes about rejecting the matrix. In the movie was there mention of how the first people were freed? I'm pretty sure there was but I can't remember exactly. Maybe that will help...

Update: Why not just get the people who reject the matrix, and kill them right after they're freed? That way, they're filtering, without the risk.

Last edited by Michael Russo on May-20-2003 at 02:40

jeez, i said it once and ill say it again, neo is NOT a machine, i would seriously like someone to prove this to me...

and once youve done that, then tell me why all these agents/zion and all that stuff exist, cuz if the machines had the power to create neo, then they could just kill anyone who resisted...no need for all the other crap...and dont say control, cuz neo can control everything and nothing can outpower him

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it was the greatest feeling of nothingness i have ever experienced...

quote:

Originally posted by Arsalan look who it is

well well...PICK UP UR PHONE...so lazy

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it was the greatest feeling of nothingness i have ever experienced...

quote:

Originally posted by Resnick jeez, i said it once and ill say it again, neo is NOT a machine, i would seriously like someone to prove this to me...

Then why don't you seriously tell us one of your brilliant ideas?


The signs seem to be pointing to the fact that neo is a machine. Come on... dozens of "he's only human" comments, as well as Morpheus' "he fights for us" statement. Either they're going to develop the story in this fashion, or they're being really clever and pulling an oracle stunt, getting us to think that he is a machine, only to then trick us.

Time will tell...

Personally I think it would be really awesome if there was not matrix in a matrix, and neo is not a machine... that would make for good theatre