quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Hahahahahaa, you gotta be kidding me?! If there's one word that you can't use to describe Traffic, it's subtle. The melodies are loud in-your-face synth bashes, the kick is a muddy and sloppy lo-fi job(quality of layers? Don't make me laugh), and to top it all off it has shitloads of distortion and FX madness. And you're trying to tell me that it's "subtle" and "ultimately brilliant"? Gimme a break. Then there's the fact that large portions of the track are based purely on Sean Deason's classic techno track Psychofuk - Psychofuk, which means that it wasn't Tiesto that came up with it in the first place, it was all based on another producer's work. Having said all that I do like Traffic, it works well live and sounds quite different to the trance we're used to, but calling it "ultimately brilliant" and saying that "noone in trancedom can come up with something that musically well thought out" is pure bullshit, and makes me wonder how far the head of the person who said it is up Tiesto's ass.

The way he sampled Psychofuk is exactly what's so great about Traffic. The buildup and breakdown is very subtle, but you're misunderstanding what I mean with subtle. With subtle I mean the cadential progressions, the incorportation of the trance ethos into the simple minimal melody, which are factors that are actually not present in Psychofuk. I'm 100% sure that Fairy or Armin et. al. don't have what it takes to make such an effective dancefloor stormer. I know that in terms of production quality Traffic is not the best track out there, but it IS very unconventional and original trance, which is the topic of this thread.

Why did you need to insult me for speaking my mind anyways?

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance The way he sampled Psychofuk is exactly what's so great about Traffic. The buildup and breakdown is very subtle, but you're misunderstanding what I mean with subtle. With subtle I mean the cadential progressions, the incorportation of the trance ethos into the simple minimal melody, which are factors that are actually not present in Psychofuk.

There is nothing subtle with neither the breakdown or the buildup. The buildup consists of nothing but a simple layering of kick, bass and effects before the breakdown, which again consists of nothing but the extremely sloppily made kickdrum and the synths fading in in the most standard trance way ever. I see no subtlety in these elements whatsoever, and pretty sure you could find the same type of "cadential progressions" (and please drop the fancy wordplay, you're not impressing anyone) in some of "Fairy's" or Armin's tracks as well if you could just try to be objective for once.

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I'm 100% sure that Fairy or Armin et. al. don't have what it takes to make such an effective dancefloor stormer.

Oh, I think many here on TA would beg to differ.

Sorry for the derogatory remark btw, I just find the way you praise Traffic way out of proportion to be extremely annoying.

___________________
"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper There is nothing subtle with neither the breakdown or the buildup. The buildup consists of nothing but a simple layering of kick, bass and effects before the breakdown, which again consists of nothing but the extremely sloppily made kickdrum and the synths fading in in the most standard trance way ever. I see no subtlety in these elements whatsoever, and pretty sure you could find the same type of "cadential progressions" (and please drop the fancy wordplay, you're not impressing anyone) in some of "Fairy's" or Armin's tracks as well if you could just try to be objective for once.

It's not fancy wordplay, i'm not trying to impress anyone. When I'm talking about cadential progressions I actually mean something very concrete in terms of music theory. That's how I appreciate and value music, I can't help it. I can get more specific if you want.

The melody is based on a simple chromatic progression(which means it moves in semitones) starting in a continuous repetion of C#-C. This is complemented with a long crescendo that ends up in the resolution of the C#-C cadence, by moving up to the scale's subdominant at F. The melody then proceeds to move up in a major key up to an A, which is resolved downwards in a melodic minor scale leading back to an intensified version of the original C#-C repetition. This all happens in counterpoint modal movement to the steady bassline in Bb and its resolving overtone of A. The harmony this creates is a minor third continually leading to dissonant major second, an effect that creates mad tension in the listener, forcing your ear to ask for that swift resolution that comes when the melody moves to the subdominant-dominant. The end result is what I consider a gem, which I have adored ever since I heard it at the TMF Awards and no one knew it was a Tiesto production.

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Oh, I think many here on TA would beg to differ.

So what? As I said this is only MY opinion and I have very solid reasons to come to that conclusion.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance It's not fancy wordplay, i'm not trying to impress anyone. When I'm talking about cadential progressions I actually mean something very concrete in terms of music theory. That's how I appreciate and value music, I can't help it. I can get more specific if you want. The melody is based on a simple chromatic progression(which means it moves in semitones) starting in a continuous repetion of C#-C. This is complemented with a long crescendo that ends up in the resolution of the C#-C cadence, by moving up to the scale's subdominant at F. The melody then proceeds to move up in a major key up to an A, which is resolved downwards in a melodic minor scale leading back to an intensified version of the original C#-C repetition. This all happens in counterpoint modal movement to the steady bassline in Bb and its resolving overtone of A. The harmony this creates is a minor third continually leading to dissonant major second, an effect that creates mad tension in the listener, forcing your ear to ask for that swift resolution that comes when the melody moves to the subdominant-dominant. The end result is what I consider a gem, which I have adored ever since I heard it at the TMF Awards and no one knew it was a Tiesto production. So what? As I said this is only MY opinion and I have very solid reasons to come to that conclusion.

GEEK!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance The melody is based on a simple chromatic progression(which means it moves in semitones) starting in a continuous repetion of C#-C. This is complemented with a long crescendo that ends up in the resolution of the C#-C cadence, by moving up to the scale's subdominant at F. The melody then proceeds to move up in a major key up to an A, which is resolved downwards in a melodic minor scale leading back to an intensified version of the original C#-C repetition. This all happens in counterpoint modal movement to the steady bassline in Bb and its resolving overtone of A. The harmony this creates is a minor third continually leading to dissonant major second, an effect that creates mad tension in the listener, forcing your ear to ask for that swift resolution that comes when the melody moves to the subdominant-dominant.

That doesn't change the fact that the whole synth sequence sounds like a random synth bashing session from Tiesto on his keyboards until he finds a combination of notes that have a decent harmonic flow, which he then proceeds to smother in FX in order to give it as big an impact on a massive sound system as possible when it is hammering out at the end of the respective bars in the track. Granted, it works quite well, but it is by no means subtle nor genious. I think you are grossly overestimating your favourite producer, as he has no classical background whatsoever to figure out these glorious progressions that you speak so highly of.

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So what? As I said this is only MY opinion and I have very solid reasons to come to that conclusion.

Yes, and I'm disputing them. Just like the people I mentioned would dispute your statement:

quote:

I'm 100% sure that Fairy or Armin et. al. don't have what it takes to make such an effective dancefloor stormer

___________________
"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper That doesn't change the fact that the whole synth sequence sounds like a random synth bashing session from Tiesto on his keyboards until he finds a combination of notes that has a decent harmonic flow, which he then proceeds to smother in FX in order to give it as big an impact on a massive sound system as possible when it is hammering out at the end of the respective bars in the track. Granted, it works quite well, but it is by no means subtle nor genious.

Well, my point is that it is not a random synth bashing session. It is actually a pretty well thought out product of artistic creativity. Yes, he finds a combo of notes that have a decent harmonic flow (because he has never studied actual music theory) and his own ear led him to create a piece of work, that in MY own personal perspective as a musician, is a very impressive musical product. The technical quality of production might not be all that (just like his mixing), but I certainly find the musicianship in this to be brilliant for the reasons I already stated.

Frankly, trance is not my favorite genre of edm right now. But stuff like this is what makes it refreshing. I listen to those other superstar guys in dutch trancedom and they don't impress me at all, not even close. Maybe I was brainwashed, maybe I'm ignorant, maybe I'm deaf. But I can't help having this opinion. Sorry.

how bout

Skin - Faithfulness (Tiesto Remix)

love the part where the synths come in all crazy

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Originally posted by YaleTrance It's definitely much closer to what trance was intended to be when it was created than any of the stale formulaic 72-measure breakdown shit that you probably consider as trance. It's all about the minimalist hypnotic repetition of simple melodic patterns with complex harmonic layering and the use of deceptive cadences to captivate the listener and enhance the experience. And structurally speaking, if you really think that Traffic is not trance then I recommend that you get schooling from someone that has a clue.

so you know what trance was intended to be huh? please tell me whose intentions these were?

traffic is basically an emotionless tune thats good to use between deeper tunes, but its still good at keeping the crowd hyped up...
all that shit you were saying described 10 seconds of the song, big deal... the rest of it is pretty stale

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Originally posted by jdjd so you know what trance was intended to be huh? please tell me whose intentions these were? traffic is basically an emotionless tune thats good to use between deeper tunes, but its still good at keeping the crowd hyped up... all that shit you were saying described 10 seconds of the song, big deal... the rest of it is pretty stale

trance was originally hypnotic and repetitive music, it did not have 3 minute breakdowns back in the day. whatever, this discussion is done.

are you guys nuts? all of Ferry Corsten's productions sound similar...


Yunus Guvenen - Mass Schizophrenia
DoGu Dimmez - Possible

without a doubt hands down... no questions asked.... go download and see why its the most original... the man prides himself on being the most original and unpredictable
if you want extremely original.... get yunus guvenen's 34bpm proton radio [02-Nov.-2003] set... and listen to

Pig & Dan - Cookies
Soul Mekanik - Electric Elephant

___________________
:+: RaVeRSurGe :+:

eric sneo - black hole
dj preach - oxygen (eric sneo beatdisasters remix)
adam beyer - live @ liquid empire 03.17.06 - part2 - track... 14:20 - 19:00
chris liebing - live @ belgrade CD 1 - track... 11:39 - 14:40

Last edited by forsakend on Dec-12-2003 at 00:44

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance It is ultimately brilliant, no one else in trancedom can come up with something that musically well thought out.

quote:

Originally posted by YaleTrance maybe I'm ignorant

*ding ding ding*

What have we got for him Johnny?!

___________________

"I expect to pass through life but once. If therefore, there be any kindness I can show, or any good thing I can do to any fellow being, let me do it now, and not defer or neglect it, as I shall not pass this way again."