quote:

Originally posted by Dopey that has nothing to do with what I said. you are focusing on the past. doing so won't make the future any better.

If you havent understood my point, then so be it... but just so you know....thei condiditons PRESENTLY are even WORSE than before. Israel is constantly killing and causing shit....

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-MARCO V

there won't be any cease fire until Israel stops its extra-judicial assassinations and pissing off the resistance groups, and until it stops demolishing homes and imposing collective punishment and stops its aggression against the people.

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Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian there won't be any cease fire until Israel stops its extra-judicial assassinations and pissing off the resistance groups, and until it stops demolishing homes and imposing collective punishment and stops its aggression against the people.

well we'll see how this Hamas cease-fire goes. they arent assasinating any Hamas leaders right now.

civilians are still being killed and israel just assassinated an islamic jihad leader.

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*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian civilians are still being killed

Yes, they are.

5:57pm (UK)
Three Killed in Israel Bus Stop Bombing
A Palestinian suicide bombing at a bus stop outside Tel Aviv tonight killed three people and injured 16 others in the first such attack in nearly three months, rescue workers said.

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

and a much higher number of palestinians were killed during those three months.

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*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok Yes, they are. 5:57pm (UK) Three Killed in Israel Bus Stop Bombing A Palestinian suicide bombing at a bus stop outside Tel Aviv tonight killed three people and injured 16 others in the first such attack in nearly three months, rescue workers said.

the media shoves it down our throats....calling it a time of "RELATIVE CALM" before this attack!!!!!!!!!


RELATIVE CALM MY ASS... dozens of palestinians were killed and murdered this passed month, but when 3 isreali's die (three of them IDF soldiers), suddenly all hell breaks loose, "relative calm" is disrupted. The results of the Incursion were more than just a relative calm...can you not see who is given more mediation.. 3 dead israeli's is plastered on TV's but hardly anyoine hears about those children that were blown to bits this month....

Makes me sick

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

For The Sake of Its Own Virtue, Palestinian Resistance Must Spare Civilians
Wednesday, December 31 2003

"It is amiss, for the occupied to utilize the unmerited ways of the occupier"

By RAMZY BAROUD
The Palestine Chronicle

Palestinian resistance factions must stop targeting Israeli civilians, with or without an officially bargained cease-fire and regardless of what Israel and its reckless government do in response. This is imperative if the Palestinian struggle is to safeguard its historic values and maintain its morality.

For some, such reasoning may seem inconsistent, one-sided even; after all, the Israeli Army continues to target civilians unhindered, so why deny Palestinians the right to retaliate?

Palestinians have the right of self-defense, and the unequivocal right of ridding themselves of the occupation. These rights are protected in international law and require little debate or intellectual tussling. But it is wrong for the occupied — who surely have the moral edge — to use the same illegitimate means as the occupier. International law makes a clear distinction, as should the Palestinian resistance, between occupying military forces and civilians. If Palestinians waver from this crucial line of reasoning, their historically virtuous struggle risks being tainted with moral corruption.

The Palestinian revolution was born in the orchards of Jenin as early as the 1920s. It was and remains a freedom struggle, a cry for justice. Typically, the overall methods used by the ongoing uprising in the occupied territories contrasts with the ghastly practices of the Israeli government and army. In fact, since their early days of combating the occupation forces, Palestinians aspired to be inclusive because they longed for equality and insisted on the universal applicability of human rights.

These values must remain intact.

But every nation — and Palestinians are no exception — has a breaking point. That is only human that, following decades of suffering, violence and dispossession, the determination to gain freedom can give way to desperation and a raw desire for vengeance. To those living in the occupied territories, suicide bombings are part of the reality into which Palestinians are born. Yet if Palestinians allow Israeli tactics to influence their resistance strategy, then the authenticity of the entire struggle is compromised. But what if Palestinian factions overcome their sense of despair and unilaterally halt attacks on Israeli civilians, permanently and unreservedly?

Alas, even then, the perception held of Palestinians and their struggle is unlikely to change, at least not in the United States, where political propaganda, not actuality, governs public opinion.

The Palestinian struggle was equally and abrasively condemned in much of the Western Hemisphere before the first suicide bombing against Israeli civilians ever happened, less than ten years ago. This flawed perspective continues, in defiance of logic.

After all, the conquest of historic Palestine, with all the massacres it entailed, preceded any truly collective Palestinian struggle, violent or otherwise.

The mainstream media, most notability in the United States, is silent about this fact. As far as Israel (and thus pro-Israeli media and governments) is concerned, the version of history that counts is the one that highlights Palestinian violence. Violence in the Middle East is largely defined by Palestinian attacks; “calm” and “lull” are words that describe intervals between Palestinian, not Israeli, violence. The occupied territories may be drowning in Israeli violence; but so long as no Israeli casualties are reported, much of the world media report quiet.

The suicide bombing of Oct. 4 and Dec. 25 are a case in point.

Between these two incidents, Palestinian losses mounted. Reportedly, 117 Palestinians were killed, mostly civilians, including 23 children; several thousand Palestinians were made homeless as nearly 500 homes and apartments were destroyed by Israeli explosives or bulldozers, primarily in the already overcrowded and poverty-stricken Gaza Strip. But according to Palestinian-American media critic Ali Abunimah, the corporate media in the US (and in Britain, to a lesser extent) brimmed with regret over the squandered opportunity for peace that the December bombing yielded (keeping in mind that the latter targeted Israeli soldiers, not civilians).

The Los Angeles Times, the Chicago Tribune and CNN dealt a blow to any journalistic integrity when they chose such statements to mark the day of the Palestinian attack: “12-Week lull in Mideast ends”, “Mideast quiet shattered”, “Attacks broke a lull that had lasted more than two months and raised fears of a slide into violence”, “There has been a relative calm since the Haifa bombing (last October) “ and so on.

Pro-Israeli pundits in the American media and government, and influential lobby groups and think tanks find Israel’s justifications for its senseless violence and occupation of Palestinian land compelling. But even with that in mind, injustice must not be an invitation to respond with equally morally degrading acts. Sharon and his henchmen, of all people, should not, in any way, determine the nature and magnitude of Palestinian resistance.

To maintain its moral edge, the Palestinian revolution must not be tainted by the crimes of the occupier; it must not fall into the trap of fury, racial and religious exclusivity and vengefulness against civilians.

True, the US media will hardly give the Palestinians credit. But should we remain confined by media partiality and desperate for the validating words of some government spokesman? Were these the values that inspired and sparked the current uprising and the uprisings of the past?

Suicide bombings against civilians estrange us from the principles of the Palestinian struggle for freedom. These values must remain untainted so that the will of the people may some day prevail over tyranny and oppression.

About the author: Ramzy Baroud is a Palestinian-American journalist, editor-in-chief of the Palestine Chronicle online newspaper. Contact him at: [email protected]

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*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King the media shoves it down our throats....calling it a time of "RELATIVE CALM" before this attack!!!!!!!!! RELATIVE CALM MY ASS... Makes me sick

I agree... no mention of the over two dozen sucidie bombers that were prevetned from perpurtating just such attacks over this period of "relative calm".

It makes me sick too or ... I don't know which smiley looks more constipated like

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian For The Sake of Its Own Virtue, Palestinian Resistance Must Spare Civilians Wednesday, December 31 2003 By RAMZY BAROUD The Palestine Chronicle Palestinian resistance factions must stop targeting Israeli civilians, with or without an officially bargained cease-fire and regardless of what Israel and its reckless government do in response. This is imperative if the Palestinian struggle is to safeguard its historic values and maintain its morality.

What "morality" do the Palestinians have to maintain?
Either the Palestinians have been immoral, as this article hints, or they have been moral all the while perpurating acts this author views as immoral, and hence they should adopt a new morality and not maintain their old one...

The author basically states though the Palestinians need to change their acceptance of such things as strikes on civilians - immoral acts, and hence should change their morality...

Oh well just wanted to point out the circular reasoning of hippies


oh shit, this means Palestinian know I actually read one of his posts every now and then.. AHHHH

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Last edited by Yoepus on Jan-02-2004 at 04:50

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus What "morality" do the Palestinians have to maintain?

I don't think you know what morality is in the first place. You can be very racist and not know it.

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*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I agree... no mention of the over two dozen sucidie bombers that were prevetned from perpurtating just such attacks over this period of "relative calm". It makes me sick too or ... I don't know which smiley looks more constipated like

You cant compare the lack of coverage that is given to innocent palestinian lives lost to the lack of coverage that you feel deserves more attention, and that is the lack of coverage given to the preventetive successes Israel has had... they are two different issues.

Im comparing LIVES with LIVES, but the difference is that they are two races. Western media values Israeli loss of life more than the Palestinian life.


But since Palestinians are killed daily, it comes to no surprise if it happens the next day.....

Whats the point of reporting it... its boring now, it happens to much, plus they are palestinians...who cares about them...they are arab.

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V