quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley This is also why not allowing the Palestinian state to have an army or conduct foreign relations is unacceptable, as every country must have the right to defend itself (which Im sure you can relate to)

wrong. Japan was denied the right of having a national army following the WW2 peace treaties. So forth should palestine not need the right to have an army after being in 'battle' with the israelis for so long. Think of it israelis wanting proof that the palestinains mean peace - why need an army if you want peace?

btw since when have left wingers been in favor of the military... i thought that was my job... i cant belive im the one advocating for palestinian military so that the budget can be spent on more important social matters like health and education services

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quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I sent it on saturday! To the email address you sent me

ahh thats right.. my bad



damn i forgot Europeans don't double space.. thing looks like a mammoth

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quote:

btw since when have left wingers been in favor of the military...

Who said I was left wing?! Ok so traditionally the left support Palestine and the right support Israel, but my opinions have come from being totally neutral (ie. I have no reason to support either Palestinians or Israelis) and from that position, I have come to the conclusion that Israel is the one who can and should do more for peace and security (especially the security of their own citizens)

I would say I was slightly to the left, but not far left. I believe in the state and recognise the need for military etc. I would say I was a social democrat, if I had to label myself, if that makes sense to you (maybe if you are American it doesn't?)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Ok, I cant be arsed to go thru each of the points and give my two penneth worth, but I notice a theme thru your points which is Israeli security (from theats from other countries). What country in their right mind would attack Israel today?! Now I know Israel has been invaded/attacked in the past, but that was when the opposition thought they might win. Today, every country in the Middle East is shit scared of America after the Iraq war (see Libya). Anyone attacking Israel would face the US...nobody is that stupid!!! (Add to that that Israel probably has one of the most powerful armies in the world behind Britain, China and Russia, and maybe the US) So I dont buy the argument that these demands were neccessary to protect Israeli security. They look to me, more like a contingency plan to quickly reoccupy the West Bank and Gaza if they wished to. This is also why not allowing the Palestinian state to have an army or conduct foreign relations is unacceptable, as every country must have the right to defend itself (which Im sure you can relate to) And yes, the water demand is unaceptable, end of (as is what Israel is currently doing re. water which is a huge source of Palestinian discontent with Israel) As for ROR, I think we both agree On Jerusalem, I have no fucking idea whatsoever!!! (the only option I have seen that looks like a fairly decent idea is making Jerusalem an 'international city' under the control of the UN)

In a way, I don't disagree with you, there aren't many sane people who would choose to attack Israel in a full-blown war...

...However, you're talking about Israel *now*! If Israel decided to, say, discard all of the aforementioned conditions and just evacuate their land from Palestine [what the Palestinians consider to be Palestine] immediately, they would be putting themselves in an extremely weak military position considering that they'd be completely engulfed by neighbouring Arab nations. Not only that, but who's to say that their people living in the occupied territories might not be slaughtered before they had a fighting chance to get out of there.

Nobody would attack them now, but that could change very quickly if they just threw their hands up and did everything that Palestine wanted. I think they tried to balance the need for Palestinian sovereignity with the need for Israeli security, considering that most of the security measures they wanted to implement were only temporary.

Arafat would never have accepted on any conditions, though. He would have found something wrong as long as there was an Israel on the map.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Arafat would never have accepted on any conditions, though. He would have found something wrong as long as there was an Israel on the map.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Arafat would never have accepted on any conditions, though. He would have found something wrong as long as there was an Israel on the map.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Arafat would never have accepted on any conditions, though. He would have found something wrong as long as there was an Israel on the map.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Arafat would never have accepted on any conditions, though. He would have found something wrong as long as there was an Israel on the map.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Arafat would never have accepted on any conditions, though. He would have found something wrong as long as there was an Israel on the map.

JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT OTHERWISE!

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Arafat is a nice guy

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