Anyone else noticed how ALL of the studies that say that ecstacy will definitely, 100% damage your brain and is dangerous and should be banned and blah blah blah are from America???

Whilst all the european studies say their is no conclusive evidence, there appears to be some increase in neurotoxicity but not overwhelming amounts, and no proof that the mdma led to the increase in neurotixicity and not other lifestyle factors, etc.


Personally i only listen to the european studies, as almost all american studies are funded by the american government (can we say bias?)..... when a european study comes out saying that esctacy really is dangerous, then and ONLY then will i sit up and take notice....

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Never hold your farts in!!!
They travel up your spine into your brain
and that where you get shit ideas from!!!

This is not a justification for use, but rather a counter to bad science.

Ecstacy has been in use for over 25 years recreationally, as has LSD and amphetamines.

We're simply not seeing the number of cases that the American studies predict. One study even predicted a mortality rate of 40% on first use.

You have to see these drugs in light of the amount of time they've been in use, and the real world, practical results of that. We don't see 40% of people that take a pill dying every weekend. Nor do we see people turning up to hospital in droves and being associate to prior drug use.

I agree that there's the POTENTIAL for damage from these drugs, and in fact, it's LIKELY to damage you if you binge, and PROVEN to damage you if you OD or it interracts badly with other medication you're taking.

I'd desperately love to see more research on the subject, because the more reliable, scientifically sound information there is, the better decisions can be made by individuals, communities and governments.

Relating all this back to raves... raves seem to have largely grown out of the commercialisation of the Hippy LSD culture.

We're seeing the results of that commercialisation now. Younger and younger people doing more and more stupid things because it's portraied as cool.

Does that make the scene itself bad, negative, inbred or dangerous? No, not really, but it DOES make the portrail of drugs as cool and hip dangerous.

Does having the scene built largely on and around drugs make it bad, negative or dangerous? No. There are many positive aspects to the scene, and many aspects of drug taking that are more neutral than anything else.

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I'm running! I'm running! I'm running! ... I'm naked!

I didnt bring that up as justification for using drugs, just as a couple of facts people should remember when they make claims that its dangerous and "bad"....

Couldnt agree more with you on the other points mate!

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Never hold your farts in!!!
They travel up your spine into your brain
and that where you get shit ideas from!!!

I can see the negatives however i can also see positives that i have gained from the rave culture.

However as i work with Young people (8-16yo's) on a regular basis i do feel the same way as Paulie in regards to the number of young people who are taking drugs regularly in this culture of ours. Dont get me wrong, i love this culture and really enjoy being a part of the whole thing, including the music, the people and yes to an extent the drugs.

From the perspective of someone who works with young people i do believe that there is a massive issue in the underage drug use with in the culture. I see one very clear cut way to minimize this and that responsibility belongs to the clubs and event management of events such as Gods Kitchen and Together. I didnt get id'd at either of these events and i am rarely id'd at clubs. I am 23 and honestly only look about 20 so i should be id'd more than i am. I also speak to many ppl at events and clubs that turn out to be in that 14-18 yo range. It dissapoints me to see the lack of interest the security and management of these clubs and events show to the age of its patrons.

Take for example the recent incident at Heaven nightclub in Adelaide and the image that gives to our cultre, its not an image i want to be associated with at all. Yet its not only our culture that is to blame for these young people having the complications that they did, its the management and security of Heaven nightclub and all the venues i know around melbourne that i could get anyone into no matter what their age.

All we can do to protect our culture from this sort of image is to discourage the use of drugs in people who are under 18. I know many of the young people i have met in the scene are as much there for the music than the rest of us. I love the music and the people in the scene. The people that are under 18 also are there for the same reasons in the most part. However what it comes down to is that these events are and should be over 18 events/venues. We as patrons of these events need to respect these laws and hope that the management of these venues can also improve the effort they put into assuring that their venue is only being entered by people of correct age.

This may sound like a bit of a rant about the under 18's out there. I am in no way saying that i dont like younger people being around, i just dont think its right for young people to be involved with drugs, the same way they are not supposed to be drinking.

Gonna stop this rant now before i dig a deaper hole

quote:

Originally posted by lethal I didnt bring that up as justification for using drugs, just as a couple of facts people should remember when they make claims that its dangerous and "bad"....

I was actually just expanding on your post, and I thought your post was in the same vein as mine.

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I'm running! I'm running! I'm running! ... I'm naked!

quote:

Originally posted by bragi I was actually just expanding on your post, and I thought your post was in the same vein as mine.

Woops soz mate - i read the first line of your post whilst wearing my "Hehe im about to get flamed!" hat.... i took it the wrong way... my bad!


just a quick question how many of the under 18s on here have actually been able to get in to clubs?? I know we managed to get matt in 2 a couple of Halcyons (go the good ol "im a dj" trick! ) but just out of curiosity is it actually fairly easy or not???

When i was underage it was VERY easy to get in to a pub but almost impossible to get in to a club! Have things changed???

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Never hold your farts in!!!
They travel up your spine into your brain
and that where you get shit ideas from!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jono4L However what it comes down to is that these events are and should be over 18 events/venues. We as patrons of these events need to respect these laws and hope that the management of these venues can also improve the effort they put into assuring that their venue is only being entered by people of correct age.

agreed.

however, you're missing an equation.

commercialism + under 18's = $$

that's what it's all about for the organisers, no matter what the cost (ie. the underaged patrons).

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This is trance...
Jose Amnesia - The Eternal (Pulser Remix) / Chicane - Saltwater / Photon Project - Illumination / Gouryella - Tenshi / Altitude - Altitude (SHOKK Remix) / Rank 1 - Airwave / The Thrillseekers - Synaesthesia (En Motion Mix)

quote:

Originally posted by lethal When i was underage it was VERY easy to get in to a pub but almost impossible to get in to a club! Have things changed???

Things were the same in my day

--djway

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Rave culture? didnt know there was one.

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lost in progression.

pink floyd - echoes.

Essay Writing , nice to see.

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lost in progression.

pink floyd - echoes.

quote:

Originally posted by jono4L All we can do to protect our culture from this sort of image is to discourage the use of drugs in people who are under 18.

Disagree entirely on this point, that sounds like the "drugs r bad mmkay" approach which has been proven over and over not to work. Doesn't matter how illegal you make something, people will still do it.

To be honest, I think outlawing something makes it much more desirable, especially for teenagers. It's like training a dog not to escape from the backyard. If you shout at the dog and say NO! every time he tries to run through an open gate, he'll just wait for your back to be turned and the first thing he does it bolt. On the other hand, showing the dog that there's not really anything interesting through the gate means that they don't want to escape in the first place.

If you follow me

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quote:

Originally posted by webmeister To be honest, I think outlawing something makes it much more desirable, especially for teenagers. It's like training a dog not to escape from the backyard. If you shout at the dog and say NO! every time he tries to run through an open gate, he'll just wait for your back to be turned and the first thing he does it bolt. On the other hand, showing the dog that there's not really anything interesting through the gate means that they don't want to escape in the first place.

so what you're saying webbie is that we should take our dogs to raves? is that it?

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lower the curtain down on memphis
lower the curtain down on me...