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in no order apart from DJ Fire being the best producer
DJ Fire rules!

quote:

Originally posted by EgosXII ^^^ it's the same with 4 fingers tho: eventually the people of the past (5-fingers) would die out, and the 4-fingers would be seen as superior because they were able to survive while the 5-fingers couldn't-- so it's still progress-- but yeah, i guess change = evolution at the baser level- logic always confuses things

Polydactyly (increase in no. of fingers/ toes) is present in the human population today. Its a autosomal (not sex-linked) dominant condition, but isnt usually present due to incomplete penetrance. This means there are other genes compensating (or masking) the condition (or could be environmental conditions). So, although it is existant, its rarity and not being advantageous to humans means it wont really be a prevalent condition that would lead to speciation.

Having said that, you could look at it in this way. Say you have a group of monkeys that live on the ground. Now, a mutation arises which gives an extra digit (or some other useful appendage), and this digit gives extra ability for the monkey having the mutation to climb up the tree. If this mutation survives and is able to be passed on to some of the offspring, they to can climb the tree. Now there is a different food source available for the mutant finger monkeys, and so they decide to live up there. But the population living on the ground is still quite happy there, as they have the original condtions which still sustain them. Eventually there will be 2 different species of monkeys, as they wont interbreed and will diverge individually. The selection pressures for each group is now also different, as they live in different places and eat different food. Either one could a) diverge again or b) go extinct. Its not that original group will go extinct simply because a new mutation arrvied. This is why we have so many different species on earth. Evolution is more about the change rather than a linear succession of a "better" genotype.

anyway, this is a very simplified explanation, im meant to be studying.

finally, heheheheheh monkeys.

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Last edited by jono4L on Jun-17-2007 at 14:35

quote:

Originally posted by gumble finally, heheheheheh monkeys.

I realise all that (not about the monkeys, i just wanted to keep the thread clean(ish), and i also think monkeys are nothing to be laughed at ) -- I simply didn't explain it because i assumed you knew, and it would appear you do

I guess i'm wondering whether the new species wouldn't compete, or actively drive the old one to extinction-- if there was a shortage and it came to a point where the 2 tribes would be forced to fight (overpopulation creating lack of resources perhaps- whatever), then the monkeys who had adapted a new finger, making them not only able to roam the ground as well as the original monkeys, but also mine the depths of the trees (irony of phrase intended (for no reason)) in a superior way to the groundlings, then wouldn't that be seen as the treebies being superior because of the evolutionary process?

Pretty much i think that as soon as we're thinking about something, we're placing a judgement on it (the problem with objectivity), so tho the CHANGE of getting an extra finger isn't necessarily positive or negative, the outcomes always will be, as soon as we see them-- for this reason, i'm saying evolution implies improvement: tho, it's not conscious: an anomalie isn't evolution: evolution implies the change within a GROUP (race, culture, etc), not just the freak accident-- the freak accident turns into something permanent within a group... that's my uneducated belief about evolution anyway

also: the fingers are an arbitrary analogy: no need to give me the lecture about recessive and dominant genes and physical anomalies etc

after writing that, i now find monkeys funny, and will laugh with you about them: hahahahahahaha!! "stupid monkey!"

edit: so, for music: you'd be saying the music you USED to listen to was crap, if you said you're tastes had EVOLVED, since you no longer listen to it...

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haha, forgot about this...

There are so many possible scenarios I guess. One could be that there is a predator that the monkeys have co-evolved with on the ground. The mutant finger monkeys move up into the tree and have no threat from predator and so stay up there. If conditions where good for a long time (critical element for speciation through evolution) the tree monkeys and ground monkeys would live side by side and eventually not be physically able to overlap.

Overpopulation would be governed be a) presence of predators on ground and b) available foodsource in trees. (top-down and bottom-up trophic levels controlling populations.) I mean, there might be some competition initially, but if conditions remained good long enough, the two populations would never have anything to do with each other ever again.

There are some monkeys that never leave the trees, and some that never leave the ground. The fact that there are so many different monkeys in the world today, shows that one monkey species hasnt driven all to extinction, they occupy different niches.

I wouldn't say either population is more evolved than the other, they just took different paths in evolution and the sympatric populations exist.


haha, and im not going down your line of attribution theory. no psychology for me



end of evolutionary discussion in this thread.

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hehe, fair enough: thanks for the discussion tho-- good shit

I forgot about this for a bit, so late reply-- haha

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quote:

Originally posted by 00soups00 it shouldnt' really be that suprising, i would hope that most people would have shifted their musical preference compared with wat it was three years ago... Bit sad if you havent evolved really. but just so we can howl ourselves stupid again in another three years, lets put together a current list. 01. 16 Bit Lolita's (DJ'ing/Producing) 02. Nick Warren (DJ'ing) 03. Perry O'Neil (Producing) 04. Markus Schulz (DJing) 05. Eelke Kleijn (Producing) 06. Remy & Roland Klinkenberg (Producing) 07. Anthony Pappa (DJ'ing) 08. Bart Van Wissen (Producing) 09. Gabriel & Dresden (DJ'ing/Producing) 10. Deadmau5 (Producing)

I'm sorry we haven't all reached enlightenment and accepted your prog/minimal which is clearly far superior to anything else.

What a fucking wank

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