quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Might I ask you have you ever lived in either one of them because like Phalpax I as well lived in a "ghetto" in NYC. I doubt that you have lived in either a NYC ghetto or a immigrant community in Europe to form such a statement that one is better than another. Notice I did not ever make mention in my commentary that one was better than the other unlike yourself, I instead drew upon the immigrant highrises in Europe as a response to St_Andrew's statements of quality of life. I wanted to demonstrate that quality of life is a very subjective point that unless you are a part of that setting makes commenting on it less than knowledgable on an individuals part. Even within these "ghettos" there are varying degrees of social problems, nothing is blanket for the "average black guy" As an average black guy from Brooklyn, NY I would like to think I can comment on this especially. As a matter of fact the majority of blacks who are very poor actually live in the Southern states of the U.S. P.S. my assertion was never that the suburbs of Paris or Amsterdam that have a lot of immigrant communities from Middle Eastern countries, Africa and Suriname in the case of Holland was worse than those in America, you interpreted that on your own. Reread my statement and you will see my point. When St_Andrew made his post I doubt he had the concept of an average black guy or immigrant in mind on the quality of life in America or those of the average immigrant in Europe and that is my point of why it is subjective to generalise as he did.

Well, the thread title is Europe vs. USA, so it's kinda logical that when you mention bad conditions of European suburbs that you are comparing them to American standards. Considering that Europe has a more equal distribution of wealth than US does, the intention of my post was to say that a lower class american guy is probably worse off than the lower class European one. I admit that I have never lived in either of those two situations, the closest I've come to it is tourist visits and passing through, so my view of American downtowns is probably more influenced by what I've seen in the movies than what I've experienced in real life. When I said average black guy, I meant average black guy from sucky neighbourhoods, not an average black guy from Brooklyn or Manhattan, just like you didn't mean an average muslim from Champs Elysees.

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Thank god for Mississippi!


[[[smoke]]]

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Juhu, Yoepus. Welcome home!

thank you, remind me what we were arguing about again?

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus thank you, remind me what we were arguing about again?

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...12&pagenumber=3 ffs

Looking at that GDP figure for DC what strikes me as odd is that nobody has brought up the rampant homlessness and crime that occurs in DC every day its not a very nice place at all. The GDP means shit when the average american dies with a shitload of debt and there is no free health care. F*ck my fellow Americans for not paying attention to what the f*ck is really going on. I think our military should crawl on our knees backwards and apologize to every Iraqi citizen for the atrocities we've committed ala Braveheart. F*ck corporate America, f*ck big brother, i know i'm gettin the hell out as soon as possible or maybe I'll be lucky and get to watch it all burn down. Lets stop having this EU dicks are bigger than American dicks and vice versa pissing contest. More money doesn't equate to happiness its only chains to bind us into slavery to the machine.


oops didn't mean to swear so many times i'm just one pissed off human

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Originally posted by smokeape Thank god for Mississippi! [[[smoke]]]

Go ape!!!

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...12&pagenumber=3 ffs

Yeah, that's basically it, Yoepus. But for your convenience, I have compiled a small list of what I would like you to comment on:

* You said gays are not treated badly in the US - have you come to your senses?

* You claimed the European social program is corrupt. Apart from the fact that there is no such thing as *a* program (each country has its own), please document your claim.

* How does "America has no nobility", logically entail that American society is not less tolerant than the European one? I'm very curious about this one

That would be it I guess, although from the look of it, other posters might have more issues for you to deal with.

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Originally posted by trancaholic Yeah, that's basically it, Yoepus. But for your convenience, I have compiled a small list of what I would like you to comment on:

Excellent! A summation, this will make my life just so much easier(proof to you we have a better life in the USA )

quote:

* You said gays are not treated badly in the US - have you come to your senses?

I've always had my senses.. well aside form the mustard thing.
Anyway I stand by gays aren't any worse or better treated in Europe than the USA. Surely Southern USA is no worse than Eastern Europe in this regard.

I'm suprised you haven't heard of a place called "California" - apparently Americans are very, very tolerant.

If by intolerant you mean that Americans when they say you're a "homo" do so to insult you, well then by golly I will have to agree with you that Americnas are intolerant to gays. However, I recall in Europe "homo" is also an insult. Get off your pedestal.

Your link :
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_lgbt

Applauds the USA for allowing Gays to marry (something many European countries do not allow!). It further applauds the Lawerence v. Texas case which through out sodomy as a crime on the Texas state law book.

The only valid concerns HRW raises are two:
Fist: Gays, Lesbians, and Transgender are made fun of in American schools.

Aside from the fact that there should be no transgender youths (sex change operations are illegal if you are under 18), from my own personal experience kids at school will make just as much fun of you for being gay as being stupid, fat, or in the band. I honestly believe they are making an issue out of nothing here.
However, you don't have to believe what I do as HRW clearly states the USA is doing something about this regardless in the article entitled "California Governor Appoints Deputy to Protect Gay and Lesbian Students"

Second: Gays can't serve in the military.

They can - they just can't say they are gay. Although admittedly funny ruling. It protects their right to privacy (the military can't ask them about sexual orientation) yet mantains age-old battle-proven techniques of a disciplined fighting force. Gays don't serve in the military for the same reason women don't serve with men. Its as simple as that. Again another non-issue IMHO.

But perhaps you can clarify to me what European army (I know its an oxymorong ) has gays in its military.

quote:

* You claimed the European social program is corrupt. Apart from the fact that there is no such thing as *a* program (each country has its own), please document your claim.

Sure did. And am I right in assuming you have claimed that they aren't corrupt ?

In all seriousness it is not the most corrupt system in the world (alla latin america) yet their are always new issues raised in it. I recall a London islamo-facist shiek was getting payed by the state to the tune of a good few a month despite the fact he should't have been getting any money because he had a well paying job.

Of course this differs from Country to Country in Europe just as it does from State to State in the USA.

I can claim the USA social program as being less corrupt simply because the size of the social program is not as large, therefore relatively assuming all else is equal the USA program will have less corruption in it.

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* How does "America has no nobility", logically entail that American society is not less tolerant than the European one? I'm very curious about this one

Think about it for a second.
All men are created equal. Americans beleive in this right?

Then how come you have a certain title. Sir, Knight, Duke, von, Lord, these all place you from creation as unequal. These entitlements are herditary most often.

Therefore the framers of the constitution decided to do away with it - in the spirit of equality/'tolerance', accepting one man as an equal to another. Basing his 'title' on merit, not heridity.

This is a philosophical point - a debated and important point that helped to create and mold the USA into a tolerant accepting society by its dismisal of static titles. I believe it provided the USA with that engrained philosophy which provides it with the dynamics to adapt and accept all.


Its a philosophical argument - its bearing is only as much as you believe in ideas and cultures ability to shape a mind.

The point I was trying to make about nobility is that due to the fact that USA culture/society has placed a ban on titles it provided it with a dynamic structure to accept things on merit, not because how they are. It was in complete disagreement with the norms of Europe at the time - and even today.

quote:

That would be it I guess, although from the look of it, other posters might have more issues for you to deal with.

Lemme know if I missed something.

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Well, let's see all these points...

1) Gays in the military

If I'm not mistaken, there was some ancient country who sent gay couples into battle. The logic behind it was that if one guy died, the other guy would get totally pissed and agressive, thus killing more enemies. So it might kinda be a good idea. Plus we get rid of all those gays

2) Corruption

By saying that a system is more corrupt because it is larger is partially correct, but that's totally irrelevant. The least corrupt system would then be the one that doesn't exist at all, and you can't tell me it's good not to have any social security whatsoever.

3) Nobility

The nobility is largely outdated and their titles are pretty much meaningless, so it's not really a relevant issue. Their duties and priviledges are nonexistant, except for serving the state protocol. Still, I'd abolish royal families if you ask me.

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i still don't get it, how is the social security system of europe corrupt?

at least in sweden i don't know about any corruptation whatsoever.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, let's see all these points... 1) Gays in the military If I'm not mistaken, there was some ancient country who sent gay couples into battle. The logic behind it was that if one guy died, the other guy would get totally pissed and agressive, thus killing more enemies. So it might kinda be a good idea. Plus we get rid of all those gays

Good idea, if the Spartans did it, hell why not the rest of the world?

I can already see you enjoying the showers in such an army Tito

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2) Corruption By saying that a system is more corrupt because it is larger is partially correct, but that's totally irrelevant. The least corrupt system would then be the one that doesn't exist at all, and you can't tell me it's good not to have any social security whatsoever.

My inital corruption argument was a cheapshot/insult/joke on the Europeans. But thanks for bringing it into serious discussion

Anyhoo. I don't know how much the European system is or isn't corrupt. Guess we can go by that 'country is most corrupt' list that came out a few months ago. Then average the sum of all European nations and find out the diff.

But communisim - which was a complete social system - was quiet corrupt, and we have no argument with that. When we take the Eastern block into consideration and Italy - corruption is still rampant in government.

quote:

3) Nobility The nobility is largely outdated and their titles are pretty much meaningless, so it's not really a relevant issue. Their duties and priviledges are nonexistant, except for serving the state protocol. Still, I'd abolish royal families if you ask me.

You don't have to believe in it. I am sure that the nobility in Europe take a different view than you. Although Europe has been taught via the American example that a meritocracy is superior to an aristocracy, they still are tied down by the traditional ideals of aristocracy ingrained in their cultural psyche to some extent.

This point might help to explain each European nation's racial hegemony aspiration.

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