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Originally posted by occrider LOL well so much for free will I guess. So God should ONLY have a choice about whether a person dies but not about what when a person chooses to do evil that hurts or KILLS another innocent person? Ahhhh I love religious explanantions.

If God is omnipotent like religions zealots tend to believe, how could you believe in free will to begin with? To believe in God is to not believe in free will.

Btw, I was being sarcastic in my first comment. I know Occrider caught on.

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Originally posted by Rodrico If God is omnipotent like religions zealots tend to believe, how could you believe in free will to begin with? To believe in God is to not believe in free will. Btw, I was being sarcastic in my first comment. I know Occrider caught on.

Heh I've actually read a few arguments that utilize determinism in order to prove the non-existence of God due to the complete lack of free will. Interesting to read and there are some compelling arguments, however, I tend to shy away from adopting such a philosophy.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Since when is running away from your problems a way to earn respect?

Since the day we acknowledge the fact that we're not omniscient. We don't know what he was going through, what his choices were, we don't even know his name. If he was capable of killing himself, he was probably depressed, and like many other diseases, it can lead to death.

If there's a person in the world who can judge his acts, in an extreme case, that is the person who was directly affected by his choice.

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Originally posted by Lira Since the day we acknowledge the fact that we're not omniscient. We don't know what he was going through, what his choices were, we don't even know his name. If he was capable of killing himself, he was probably depressed, and like many other diseases, it can lead to death. If there's a person in the world who can judge his acts, in an extreme case, that is the person who was directly affected by his choice.

You're exactly right, we don't know much of anything about the fellow. The only thing we have to go by is the fact that he demonstrated an inability to improve or cope with his life. If I started respecting people about whom the only thing I know is that they ultimately proved unable or unwilling to face their problems, then my respect wouldn't mean much.

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Originally posted by Arbiter You're exactly right, we don't know much of anything about the fellow. The only thing we have to go by is the fact that he demonstrated an inability to improve or cope with his life. If I started respecting people about whom the only thing I know is that they ultimately proved unable or unwilling to face their problems, then my respect wouldn't mean much.

It's quite the opposite actually.

You're labelling him as unable to improve or cope with his life, even though he could be mentally impaired (so he didn't have a chance of properly coping with life anyway) or in a situation that could turn his suicide in a less painful situation for people other than him (this is a classic case in countries like Japan, for example, where business men kill themselves when they find themselves in tough economical situation - which nulls the debts and gives their family another chance). These are extreme, but possible, scenarios.

If you respect people despite of your opinions (which are strongly linked to your cultural/knowledge background), it could only strengthen your respect toward others, as far as I see it.

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Originally posted by Lira It's quite the opposite actually. You're labelling him as unable to improve or cope with his life, even though he could be mentally impaired (so he didn't have a chance of properly coping with life anyway) or in a situation that could turn his suicide in a less painful situation for people other than him (this is a classic case in countries like Japan, for example, where business men kill themselves when they find themselves in tough economical situation - which nulls the debts and gives their family another chance). These are extreme, but possible, scenarios. If you respect people despite of your opinions (which are strongly linked to your cultural/knowledge background), it could only strengthen your respect toward others, as far as I see it.

Don't get me wrong: I think there are plenty of times that suicide is an appropriate choice. Far more people live too long than too short.

But the problem to me is that I don't know enough about him to respect him. For me, respect is something to be given to someone once they have demonstrated some sort of personal excellence. That is, I don't respect people just because they might be respectable, but because I'm certain they are.

I'd happily admit that this person might have been worthy of respect, but I have no way of knowing one way or the other, and given that he hasn't demonstrated any personal excellence to my knowledge, I cannot - according to my criteria for awarding respect - give him that respect. The dead don't get a free ride: he, just like everyone else I don't know, has to show that he is worthy of respect before he can expect to receive it.

honest opinion, suicide is for people who dont have the cojones to stand up to their own problems. if they are (as it is usually the case) fucked in the head, then grow some balls and go on some meds. if you cant hack it and decide to off yourself, good ridance, at least you wont predispose another generation to genetic depression. i mean its comparable to people who end up in the darwin awards for playing russian roulette with a semi automatic handgun... i dont feel bad for them at all. there is really nothing you can do for them, if they havent already realized that they have major mental issues, then you arent going to enlighten them to it. they have to want to help themselves. alot of people who are institutionalized for suicidal behaviour by family members end up killing themselves anyways.

some choose life, some choose suicide. ill go for the matching luggage and the starter home

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

I don't think committing suicide solves anything. Now his mother may get all depressed and who knows what SHE will do to herself. I don't think anything could happen to me that I would just give up and kill myself. I have had friends try to kill themselves because of break-ups with girlfriends or boyfriends. There are always solutions to any problem, even if it is not obvious. Very cowardly decision regardless of reason.

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If you try and kill yourself because of a break-up you need serious help.

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If you try and kill yourself because of a break-up you need serious help.

agreed


but i think in that case he/she had a pretty damn good reason to dump the individual in question

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp agreed but i think in that case he/she had a pretty damn good reason to dump the individual in question

I was just responding to the person who posted above me.