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Originally posted by Q5echo awesome! you are now one step closer to realizing Iraq was a strategic stepping stone towards a world free of Islamic facism

Saddam != Islamic.

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Originally posted by rizen Saddam != Islamic.

c'mon you can say it! Saddam != Islamic facist

Taliban = Islamic facist

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei = Islamic facist

seriously, diplomacy works. i will always believe that. there is nothing more powerful than the movement of people. imagine if all the worlds social and political energy were focused on the last bastian of Islamic facism, Iran. the American military machine pales in comparison to what the world is capable of.

we can do that now that Iran is isolated. do you know how long we, as a country, have been fucking around with Iran? too fucking long. this fight should have been started a decade ago, now we have to trudge through a possible decade of social change of the Muslim street that i really would rather not fight, but i'll be damned if i have to sit through another embassy bombing or plane bombing or hostage taking or anything that has to do with international terrorism in the name of jihad.

fuck the jihad dude.

drunk, later

edited because i got a liitle too emotional

Last edited by Q5echo on Aug-28-2004 at 09:22

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Originally posted by Q5echo c'mon you can say it! Saddam != Islamic facist

What are you talking about? Iraq was a relatively secular state, fascist, yes -- but mostly secular. Religious leaders were marginalized, and major religious events were banned. Saddam did make use of religion for propaganda purposes now and then, but you could hardly describe his regime as 'Islamic fascism'.

If anything, Iraq is far more likely to develop into a fascist 'Islamist' state now that we've invaded -- if religious leaders become the focal point for the resistance against US occupation (which incidentally enjoys widespread support amongst the Iraqi populace) -- and if America is forced out, guess who's going to take over?

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seriously, diplomacy works. i will always believe that. there is nothing more powerful than the movement of people.

Agreed, so why did we (we = the US and its supporters) follow policies that served to keep Saddam in power? Why did we deny the will of the Iraqi people?

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imagine if all the worlds social and political energy were focused on the last bastian of Islamic facism, Iran.

What would you describe Sudan, Saudi Arabia and so forth as then, a flourishing liberal democracies?

I'm also a bit concerned by your flippant use of the phrase 'Islamic fascism'. Most Middle Eastern governments are fascist, but most can't be accurately described Islamic -- but rather as 'Islamist'.

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we can do that now that Iran is isolated. do you know how long we, as a country, have been fucking around with Iran? too fucking long. this fight should have been started a decade ago, now we have to trudge through a possible decade of social change of the Muslim street that i really would rather not fight, but i'll be damned if i have to sit through another embassy bombing or plane bombing or hostage taking or anything that has to do with international terrorism in the name of jihad.

My god, do you seriously believe that America is engaged in a benevolent crusade to free the Middle East? If so -- think again. You've been propping up most of the totalitarian regimes in the Middle East for some time now -- in fact, a lot of Arabs hate America because you've been denying them democracy. The attacks and bombings are coming think and fast largely due to your own policies and actions in the region -- it's essentially your own doing. Social change needs to come from within; it won’t be achieved by invading countries. What that does is create more terrorism and cause entire populations to hate your guts. People in the Middle East have to institute change themselves -- you can reverse your policies and begin to help, but in the end it's up to them.

Sadly though, when independent vehicles like Al- Jazeera with stated aims of Middle Eastern reform are silenced and denounced as terrorist mouthpieces by ignorant buffoons in the Bush administration, I don't hold out much hope.

arctic beat me to the punch. I'm just wondering why Q5echo isn't in the military fighting the "Jihad".

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Originally posted by Q5echo your such a stupid c**ksucker

Why do you say that?!?! If you don’t think that’s the reason were there then I think you should ask yourself why does the US treat N. Korea so differently? Is it because they dont have any OIL and if not what is it? Also, we invaded Iraq because Iraq because WE said they have WMD's and yet we have a country that Bush has included in the "axis or evil" that DOES HAVE NUKES and a way to get them to the west coast of the US and yet what the fuck are we doing about it? To me it sounds kind of weird that we kick the shit out of Iraq and do nothing about N Korea.

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~ Under the spell of a 303 ~

All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.

Last edited by hooknife on Aug-28-2004 at 18:46

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Originally posted by hooknife Why do you say that?!?! If you don’t think that’s the reason were there then I think you should ask yourself why does the US treat N. Korea so differently? Is it because they dont have any OIL and if not what is it? Also, we invaded Iraq because Iraq because WE said they have WMD's and yet we have a country that Bush has included in the "axis or evil" that DOES HAVE NUKES and a way to get them to the west coast of the US and yet what the fuck are we doing about it? To me it sounds kind of weird we that we kick the shit out of Iraq and do nothing about N Korea.

DOnt tire yourself out.. THIS EXTREME RIGHT WINGS can only see things in a Quadracular way.. it's like their vision is limited to see the front, not the SIDES of the whole picture..!

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by LiquidX DOnt tire yourself out.. THIS EXTREME RIGHT WINGS can only see things in a Quadracular way.. it's like their vision is limited to see the front, not the SIDES of the whole picture..!

You're right! I think people like the guy I quoted is just a blind believer.

If someone on this board feels like I’m wrong about N. Korea I welcome your thoughts.

___________________
~ Under the spell of a 303 ~

All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.

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Originally posted by hooknife Why do you say that?!?! If you don’t think that’s the reason were there then I think you should ask yourself why does the US treat N. Korea so differently? Is it because they dont have any OIL and if not what is it? Also, we invaded Iraq because Iraq because WE said they have WMD's and yet we have a country that Bush has included in the "axis or evil" that DOES HAVE NUKES and a way to get them to the west coast of the US and yet what the fuck are we doing about it? To me it sounds kind of weird that we kick the shit out of Iraq and do nothing about N Korea.

The reason we treat the North Koreans differently is because they have one of the largest armies on the planet, a real airforce, a real navy,long range multistage ballistic missiles, only a armistice with South Korea, and threats backed with real forces to destroy Seoul if we attack them in any way. And don't forget the point you just made, north korea HAS weapons that can reach the west coast. If we attack I don't think the people in san francisco and LA will like missiles in their back yard. This is the whole premise for stopping iraq BEFORE they could reach such a level because once a country reaches a certain point, force doesn't become an option any more.

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LOL@Q5echo

Bigups urself hooknife.

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Sig is 3.5 times, the limit, sort it out - torontotrance

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil 4) The majority of the country's money can now be spent on the people instead of weapons. 6) Saddam stole billions of dollars from oil for food and smuggled oil during the meantime, money that should have went to the people, now the new government can reap the real benefits of their wealth.

Errrr........it was imposible for saddam to steal money generated from the oil for food program, especially seeing as the UN sanctions committee had COMPLETE control over those funds.........this committee also had complete control over what iraq was able to purchase. So yeah he didnt spend it on weapons......didnt you see how poorly maintained their mechanized army was?? They buckets of rust!!! LOL!!
If anything the people that did the siphoning of that money were the UN committee members from the US and europe.LOL!!!

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Sig is 3.5 times, the limit, sort it out - torontotrance

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Originally posted by Spankster Errrr........it was imposible for saddam to steal money generated from the oil for food program, especially seeing as the UN sanctions committee had COMPLETE control over those funds.........this committee also had complete control over what iraq was able to purchase. So yeah he didnt spend it on weapons......didnt you see how poorly maintained their mechanized army was?? They buckets of rust!!! LOL!! If anything the people that did the siphoning of that money were the UN committee members from the US and europe.LOL!!!

Amazing what you can find if you do a little research. Confirmed by multiple sources.

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“U.S. intelligence officials and congressional investigators said last night that the ‘oil-for-insurgency link’ has been recently unearthed in the numerous probes now under way into the giant U.N. humanitarian program, in which Saddam is believed to have pocketed $10.1 billion through oil smuggling and kickbacks from suppliers,” the New York Post reported Monday. “Congressional investigators have uncovered hundreds of documents in recent weeks that detail how top officials in Saddam's regime directed companies bidding on contracts for oil or humanitarian goods to pay ‘after-sales fees’ — or kickbacks — of up to 10 percent of each contract.” The documents show that the kickbacks were funneled into Saddam’s secret bank accounts abroad, including Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Belarus.

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Originally posted by Q5echo awesome! you are now one step closer to realizing Iraq was a strategic stepping stone towards a world free of Islamic facism

LOL!!!
Saddam was leading a secular government you idiot!!!
Osama Bin Ladin hated saddams guts for the reason that he was a secular arab leader!!
Iraq while under the control of saddam had islamic fundamentalism squashed and he was ruthless about it especially against the shia.
If anything since his departure and the chaos that followed there is now a culture of hate towards the americans that the Americans have created by their own actions......a perfect environment for groups like al quaida to gain support for its cause.
The link to international terror by saddam was his support of suicide bombers in jereuselum by openly donating thousands of dollars to the families of the bombers. Many saw this as his way of perpetrating terror but quite simply it was to help the families cos their homes were destroyed by the israeli's. The saudi's donate millions of dollars towards the palestinian cause......they should be under the same scrutiny as saddam!!!

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Sig is 3.5 times, the limit, sort it out - torontotrance