I watch each and every beheading because not that it is reality, not that it is war but it is what is happening in Iraq on a daily basis and I choose to. I used to be one of those averted to seeing such things but then it dawned on me that I don't have to rationalize or reason about why this is happening in Iraq, it is the task and duty of the U.S. Mititary to stop such people from perpetrating these acts and the more the beheadings and kidnappings continue the more it represents the breakdown of law and order in that nation.

George Bush claims Iraq is now the battlefront on terror, thx to his policy of going into Iraq under scrupulous claims, now he is charged with dealing with the psychopaths roaming around Iraq killing civilians and what is happening. I know for one thing I don't care how much money you pay me I would not go to Iraq for all of it in the world, those who go take a profound risk being civilians, sadly that is the atmosphere that has been created in Iraq whatever the reasons may have been for war

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

quote:

Originally posted by policerobots If you look back into history when Lincoln was elected (1860s), not all states participated in the elections. 14/18 areas in iraq is 77% hell, if i had to worry about carbombs everyday voting would be pretty low on my priority list. things like democracy take time.

As an option they can hold voting for the entire country, just have polling stations in secure areas. That way everyone is allowed to vote, just the people in insecure areas have to travel a little ways to go vote. To me it would make it seem more legit and stop the inevitable people afterward calling it a "fake election" if only 14 providences vote.

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Originally posted by Spankster I am yet to watch any of the beheadings cos quite frankly i dont want those images burnt into my memory. If that makes me a coward than so be it i am a coward. I just dont feel you need to watch it to realise what is occurring is tragic and horrific. Just being told about the beheadings is enuff to know its shockingly wrong. Good one big man!

I don't like people telling me about what is happening when I can see it for myself. And that's not becuase I don't like other people's way of narrating but because my mind shows a more horrific scene when I hear it from someone else.
There's nothing wrong with being a coward. But images come and go. We see a lot, replacements are made, images move. We forget. To each his own I guess.

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quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan I watch each and every beheading because not that it is reality, not that it is war but it is what is happening in Iraq on a daily basis and I choose to. I used to be one of those averted to seeing such things but then it dawned on me that I don't have to rationalize or reason about why this is happening in Iraq, it is the task and duty of the U.S. Mititary to stop such people from perpetrating these acts and the more the beheadings and kidnappings continue the more it represents the breakdown of law and order in that nation.

there is a serial rapist/killer running around in Kansas City. does that mean there is a breakdown of law and order in this country that Bush is responsible for?

quote:

George Bush claims Iraq is now the battlefront on terror, thx to his policy of going into Iraq under scrupulous claims, now he is charged with dealing with the psychopaths roaming around Iraq killing civilians and what is happening. I know for one thing I don't care how much money you pay me I would not go to Iraq for all of it in the world, those who go take a profound risk being civilians, sadly that is the atmosphere that has been created in Iraq whatever the reasons may have been for war

its funny you say that because the last time this happened it was in Saudi Arabia. and i don't remember you saying it was Bush's fault somebody lost their head then. before all this, it was happening in Afganistan, Pakistan, Chechnya. where was your righteous indignation then?

face it. your bias taints your ideology.

you ideology taints others that seek reasoning when exposed to violence like this.

thats why i'm telling you to...SHUT THE F**K UP already.

in fact, you blamed Saudi government for Paul Johnson
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...ghlight=johnson

so which is it? is Bush the chicken or the egg?

in double fact! from the same thread not 3 months ago

quote:

originally posted by NYCTrancefan How nice to see you make mention of the fact that just like all those innocent Iraqis who died this man was also innocent and living in Saudi Arabia for ten years but your blind hatred of America doesn't let you see pass that. Right is right and wrong is wrong. So don't come here and be all sanctomonious and self righteous about the innocents who have been killed in Iraq yet you fail to acknowledge the barbarous acts of these individuals who would just as easily cut off your head, being from the Netherlands doesn't offer you an exception as you would like to believe. Self righteous indignation is merely a quality of those who cannot see the bigger picture around them. So I shall explain it for you, wakeup and realize what Islamic terrorism stands for, not freedom fighters, democracy, liberty or tolerance but hatred of others, intolerance, totalitarianism and cold blooded murder.

the f**king irony it's priceless.

I have no life BTW.

There is no irony, Saudi Arabia and Iraq are clearly two different scenarios, let the United States military invade Saudi Arabia and be charged with the security in that nation and then we can talk about what is ironic. Just as I felt the Saudi authorities should be responsible for the security in their nation, the U.S. military has to in Iraq for obvious reasons, WE INVADED. Nice try but where you fall short is that you do not acknowledge that it is the Americans that are responsible for security and catching these terrorists in Iraq. After many months of this scum Zarqawi being in Iraq why hasn't he been caught if he is terrorist persona non grata number one in that nation, clearly behind many of the orchestration of violence in Iraq.

If George W. Bush is going to talk the talk about terrorism and being tough then one of the most sickening perps is running free in Iraq undermining the U.S. plans there, isn't that rather ironic after all these months in Iraq with our entire military there.

Its pretty scary dude that you could dig up a thread from 3 mths ago, downright eery Too bad Saudi Arabi isn't Iraq however.

P.S. In Kansas City are there also bombings, kidnappings, 1000 pound bombs being dropped from the sky, innocent civilians being caught up in an open ended conflict of war. Cmon you are not serioius with that reasoning, I hope not.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Sep-27-2004 at 00:23

how nice to see you make mention of the fact that these are two different scenarios when, in fact, its the brutal mentality that both countries are fighting but your blind hatred of Bush does not let you see past that. Right is right and wrong is wrong. So don't come here and be all sanctomonious and self righteous about the lack of security when it could just as easily happen here. yet you fail to acknowledge the barbarous acts of these individuals who would just as easily cut off your head for being from the country George Bush is President of and not for being the freedom fighters they would lead you to believe. Self righteous indignation is merely a quality of those who cannot see the bigger picture around them. So I shall explain it for you, wakeup and realize what Islamic terrorism stands for, not freedom fighters, democracy, liberty or tolerance but hatred of others, intolerance, totalitarianism and cold blooded murder.

that sound familiar?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo there is a serial rapist/killer running around in Kansas City. does that mean there is a breakdown of law and order in this country that Bush is responsible for? its funny you say that because the last time this happened it was in Saudi Arabia. and i don't remember you saying it was Bush's fault somebody lost their head then. before all this, it was happening in Afganistan, Pakistan, Chechnya. where was your righteous indignation then? face it. your bias taints your ideology. you ideology taints others that seek reasoning when exposed to violence like this. thats why i'm telling you to...SHUT THE F**K UP already.

Can you explain to me what righteous indignation you are referring to or do you even understand the term or just copied it. I have never and will never defend scum of the earth when it comes to the killing of innocent civilians so do not attempt to paint me into that corner in making your response.

My argument has and always will be that until we leave Iraq the U.S. is charged with securing Iraq and has failed to do so thus far. Get a clue no heads were cut off in Afghanistan last time I checked, Chechnya has nothing to do with the U.S. Military, Pakistan has had one incident involving Daniel Pearl, who placed himself in a dangerous position as a journalist going to that part of the world and being Jewish, which may or may not have played a role. We will never know for sure. I fail to see what any of that has to do with the security situation in Iraq. Until you can properly connect your points and reasoning continue to post the 9/11 Commission Report to connect Hussein, terrorist and 9/11 when it has already been stated that Iraq had nothing to do with that. Maybe you should try SHUTTING THE F**K UP already since you can't debate with others like an informed and respectable individual.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo how nice to see you make mention of the fact that these are two different scenarios when, in fact, its the brutal mentality that both countries are fighting but your blind hatred of Bush does not let you see past that. Right is right and wrong is wrong. So don't come here and be all sanctomonious and self righteous about the lack of security when it could just as easily happen here. yet you fail to acknowledge the barbarous acts of these individuals who would just as easily cut off your head for being from the country George Bush is President of and not for being the freedom fighters they would lead you to believe. Self righteous indignation is merely a quality of those who cannot see the bigger picture around them. So I shall explain it for you, wakeup and realize what Islamic terrorism stands for, not freedom fighters, democracy, liberty or tolerance but hatred of others, intolerance, totalitarianism and cold blooded murder. that sound familiar?

You are truly hilarious at best and absurd at worst. You seem to take offense to the fact that I hate Bush and also you seem to draw the conclusion that I defend terrorists, yet you cannot deny any of what I have stated when it comes to Iraq. Hey I think you may have failed to copy a few of my words, brilliant post too bad it isn't your own thoughts which leads me to wonder.

Moreover you quote me and then state that I hate Bush yet I made that commentary only a few months ago, ask yourself then why that has happened or better yet let me help you. A continual decline in security in the Sunni Triangle, a daily death toll that includes Iraqi civilians and U.S. Soldiers all of which does not add up to an improvement in the situation from three months ago but a decline.

Ironically my own point back then could be used to justify my objectivity and belief that what the Bush administration was saying in Iraq was worthwhile, something you claim I do not have, time has had just a little to do with that opinion changing along with many other events in Iraq, not Saudi Arabia, not Chechnya, not Pakistan. I wonder who has more objectivity when it comes to Iraq and what is transpiring there

Please answer my question Who is responsible for securing Iraq, who is responsible for catching the terrorists in Iraq, the Saudis caught the ringleader and killed him, who should be killing Zarqawi in Iraq. The answer isn't too hard, its too obvious.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Sep-27-2004 at 00:58

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan I have never and will never defend scum of the earth when it comes to the killing of innocent civilians so do not attempt to paint me into that corner in making your response.

i just did. read your own damn posts. i'm done.

quote:

My argument has and always will be that until we leave Iraq the U.S. is charged with securing Iraq and has failed to do so thus far. Get a clue no heads were cut off in Afghanistan last time I checked, Chechnya has nothing to do with the U.S. Military, Pakistan has had one incident involving Daniel Pearl, who placed himself in a dangerous position as a journalist going to that part of the world and being Jewish, which may or may not have played a role. We will never know for sure. I fail to see what any of that has to do with the security situation in Iraq. Until you can properly connect your points and reasoning continue to post the 9/11 Commission Report to connect Hussein, terrorist and 9/11 when it has already been stated that Iraq had nothing to do with that. Maybe you should try SHUTTING THE F**K UP already since you can't debate with others like an informed and respectable individual.

go to *********** and tell yourself that the Taliban never cut off heads. jeez you ever seen "Death of a Russian Soldier"? those were Chechyans. look, i'm not gonna get sidetracked and argue who started lopping off noggins on tape first. you would be wrong, but its not the point. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan. it's not the point.

sorry i told you to STFU, but you and i both know this could just as easily happen here in America. then who would be the victim of your righteous indignation?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo go to *********** and tell yourself that the Taliban never cut off heads. jeez you ever seen "Death of a Russian Soldier"? those were Chechyans. look, i'm not gonna get sidetracked and argue who started lopping off noggins on tape first. you would be wrong, but its not the point. Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan. it's not the point. sorry i told you to STFU, but you and i both know this could just as easily happen here in America. then who would be the victim of your righteous indignation?

I have seen many of those videos you reference, that one is Ofex. I know what the Chechens do to Russians, and what the Russians do to Chechens. The Russian policy has been an abysmal failure in Chechnya, the entire international community is with us in Afghanistan including France and Germany, who many here love to bash. Pakistan had no go areas for the government until recently when it comes to the outlying provinces, Saudi Arabia as we all know promotes the brand of Islamic teachings that foster Islamic militancy throughout the region.

My frustration lies in seeing these kidnappings, bombings, beheadings occur with such frequency that you can't help but question what is going on in Iraq. What I do not want to see is everything listed above becoming permanent in Iraq, no go provinces as in Pakistan, the strong fostering of Saudi Wahhabism in Iraq, the lack of more international legitimacy in Iraq, which can all add up to a failure in policy as the Russians in Chechnya, those would be the connections I see between Iraq and those places and only one has U.S. troops there for purposes of securing the nation.

We may have had Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, etc but remember in normal societies the sociopaths and psychopaths are outnumbered by normal society, in societies where war is prevalent those boundaries are not as clearly delineated as many conflicts in Africa has shown us, an anything goes mentality takes over where rape, murder and a loss of human decency and morals take over. Food for thought

btw man, I am more than happy to have a critical debate, I just don't appreciate the profanity that isn't called for at all within the context of a one on one discussion. Sarcasm, Wittiness, etc are all fair game Once profanity enters in, the discussion usually breaks down into a slinging match of verbal explitives, like some Israeli-Palestinian threads No offense Cyrus and Yoepus.

___________________
Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Sep-27-2004 at 01:49