it's true that no one should suffer this injustice. I guess I am so disgruntled due to the fact that society is so slanted in one direction. The positive news is that people are starting to talk about it more and more whether it is on the news or in discussion forums such as this one.

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Originally posted by Allegory But instead of ways to insult and belittle each other why not discuss possibilities of rectifying such a situation.

I don't mean to interrupt your debate, but Jayx1 did suggest a solution to these outdated divorce laws.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 My conclusion? Fairer % of child support. Child support caps. And receipts provided to prove that the money goes toward the kids and not the mother's crack habit, new lexus or mexican vacation.

As for the issue, I'd have to agree that these laws are ridiculously in favour of women. Sure there are cases where the woman rightfully deserves to receive alimony payments, but there are also cases where she does not. The problem lies in the fact that regardless of the situation, almost always, the woman will get everything.

Most of my dad's monthly paycheck goes towards child support (not me). He got so fucked over by the court that he ended up paying for 2 kids, even though only 1 is his.

Sorry guys, but one's children, whether adopted or not, shouldn't be considered a chore. One should be more than happy to care for them. Well, both the mother and father should care for them whether together or separated, since they are both responsible.

yes but sometimes the courts dont even allow fatherly access. The courts see the dad as many women do, nothing but a bottomless bank account. Nobody is saying that people shouldnt take responsibilty. What is being said is that the unfairness and rampant sexism against men should be ended.

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Originally posted by Allegory I must say that I have never seen so much generalization in my life. Yes, men are suffer just as women do and yes, some are overlooked but wake up guys! The ratio of violence and mis-conduct towards men pales in comparison to that of women. Some of you have taken a subject deemed of great objective discussion and once again, have turned it into this vehement war of the sexes. Do you even know this male they speak of personally; yes, he could mal-treated but maybe not. The point is there are infinite possibilities to every case and it's alarming to see TAs reduce themselves to un-exposed elementary students. I would hope that someday we could respect each others opinions and not reduce peoples opinions as bunk! jayx1, I won't even bother.

well said sally,

and Sid, i didn't say that the only reason for divorce was mistreatment of women, but it certainly is a major cause.

I HAVE NO IDEA WAS YOU SAY THAT DIVORCE LASW FAVOUR WOMEN. where are your statistics?

yes, women are more likely to get custody of children, but all of your stories about men getting snowed and women living like rich bitches are merely anecdotal. divorce has an ADVERSE effect on women, according to Statistical Abstract of the United States,

Honestly, I think what renders people broke is not preparing researching one's case to alleviate a lot of circumstances. Legal council is really expensive, I know this from experience with other issues in business. What's assisted my family and I is assuming the bulk of the responsibility of doing the legal research, because like many others we simply couldn't afford to pay a lawyer for every phone call, for discoveries, etc.

As a partner in a relatiionship, whether it be the male or female- if you're getting screwed then find ways to retaliate. this can be quite a convoluted process but if one's partner is callous enough to make render them in such an unfortunate situation w/o just cause, then they should invest in vindication.

I know of a few people close to me, who suffered many years of awful relationships, investing in the possibility that their partners would come around, and that their relationship would restore itself as it once was. After much sufferance, a lot of digging around and a lot of patience, they've won the battle.

As for alimony and child support, hopefully one day the system will change. But I do have suggestions for those who really want to instigate change is start lobbying, and writing. I'M DEAD SERIOUS! Seriously guys, If you want to be heard and this really bothers you then all of you, then gather your efforts and address this issue. I've worked for government long enough in the past to know that many voices resonate and do get heard. Another way to to get your point across is to make it publically known with a video camera, and get the media attention. This story may be your key to being heard.

I offer these suggestions because we may not be able to change policies immediately, but we can work with what we've got. If an individual knows their wife or husband is spending the money on crack then prove that they are by recording it. It is unfortunate that one has to devise such intricate ways to prove their due much in-justice, but if a person is a survivor then they will find a way to better their situation.

___________________
"It's too cerebral, man! We're trying to make a movie, not a film!!!!!!" - Kit Ramsey

quote:

Originally posted by Allegory I must say that I have never seen so much generalization in my life. Yes, men are suffer just as women do and yes, some are overlooked but wake up guys! The ratio of violence and mis-conduct towards men pales in comparison to that of women. Some of you have taken a subject deemed of great objective discussion and once again, have turned it into this vehement war of the sexes. Do you even know this male they speak of personally; yes, he could mal-treated but maybe not. The point is there are infinite possibilities to every case and it's alarming to see TAs reduce themselves to un-exposed elementary students. I would hope that someday we could respect each others opinions and not reduce peoples opinions as bunk! jayx1, I won't even bother.

well said sally,

and Sid, i didn't say that the only reason for divorce was mistreatment of women, but it certainly is a major cause.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU SAY THAT DIVORCE LAWS FAVOUR WOMEN. where are your statistics?

yes, women are more likely to get custody of children, but all of your stories about men getting snowed and women living like rich bitches are merely anecdotal. divorce has an ADVERSE effect on women, according to Statistical Abstract of the United States, "Four times as many divorced women with children fell under the poverty line [as did] married women with children."

according to A Report Prepared by the National Economic Council
Interagency Working Group on Social Security "Divorced women are a growing share of the elderly population, and their poverty rate is higher than the overall elderly poverty rate"

according to the the Centre for Research on Aging and Gender, at Surrey University "Women aged over 65 who have previously split from their husbands lose out in terms of personal income and pension benefit", according to the leading researcher, Jay Ginn, adding that "that divorced women who have had children are the "bottom of the pile", because careers that could have earned private pensions have been interrupted."

according to a pair of studies--one conducted by researchers from the University of Michigan and Bowling Green State University, and the other from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, In the former report, published in The American Sociological Review, researchers used three three statistical tests to determine that "women who divorce...have significantly lower levels of family income and income-to-need ratios...than those who remain married."
Adding to the problems faced by divorced women who have custody of the children is the proverbial deadbeat dad who fails to pay child support. According to the Census Bureau, one-third of the kids whose fathers don't pay child support live in poverty.

******* Bartfield also found that "[e]ven if full compliance [with child support orders] were achieved, a sizable share of poor and near-poor divorced mothers would remain" in poverty.

The financial impact of divorce is greater for women than for men. The average income of female lone- parent families in 1995 was $27,721, as opposed to $40,974 for male lone-parent families. Statistics show that the income of women after separation and divorce drops 3 times whereas that of men rises an average of 7 times. The most affected are those women whom are parents of dependent children. As a result, the majority of children in separated and divorced households led by women are living most of their childhood in impoverished circumstances.





so all of you men may want to say how careful you should be in selecting a mate, but as you can see, the choice to marry and bear your children should also be heavily weighed for women.

Yes men suffer from divorce, but women and children can suffer financially as well, and greatly.

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Originally posted by Form&Funktion ^^^^^^^^ Saving child-birth, there are very little obstacles left when it comes to female career and promotion opportunity. Most companies provide equally sponsored and paid Maternity AND Praternity leaves. This means any woman has full ability to advance her own life, career and income if they so chose. I've seen many cases in my own office where the mother has duly gone back to her chosen job while the father has taken a leave for the children. Yet why is the same old cry of poverty succesfully used by women in courts when it is clear this is a defunct arguement.

I agree that many companies have gotten much better and making provsions for maternity and paternity leaved, but women are still at a disadavantage.

Women in Canada still earn less than 70% of men's income, with only 17% of women in high paying positions, while the majority are in low paying 'pink ghettos', with women dominating all but five of the 25 occupations at the bottom of the income scale (Statistics Canada).The gender inequity of earning power means that when it comes to a choice between what is best for each spouse's career, women more often sacrifice their own career for the sake of their husband's, and consequently, find themselves at a sharp economic disadvantage when it comes to divorce.

they way we value work in canada has to change. can someone please explain to me why janitorial staff make more than childcare workers, when childcare workers require a college diploma? If your (I'm asking anyone reading this)answer is something other than 'because jobs that are dominated by women generally pay less' I'd be really surious to hear it.

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Originally posted by charmscars divorce has an ADVERSE effect on women, according to Statistical Abstract of the United States,

Id say that divorce has an adverse effect on EVERYBODY involved

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Originally posted by charmscars Women in Canada still earn less than 70% of men's income, with only 17% of women in high paying positions,

LOL tell that to Quiznos head office!

I dont know where this stat comes from, how it's measured and applied. I have yet to hear of a woman getting less than a man. It would be interesting to see how they draw these conclusions considering salary is based on many varieties of things.

I'd have to verify sources, but a lot of unionized positions pay well because they participate in a position which is lucrative to the employer. For example a person who works for a giant such as Ford will make a great income and have benefits because such a corporation will have a union to protect them and ensure they are well compensated. Also, Ford relies on these workers to sell their merchandise to make their billions, so they can just walk if Ford decides not to play fair.

But this is all relative to economics and consumerism. A lot of government employees are well-compensated. Some daycare workers are too, pending if their location is in Rosedale and their Employer is human resource oriented.

___________________
"It's too cerebral, man! We're trying to make a movie, not a film!!!!!!" - Kit Ramsey