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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit you forgot racist

Thanks cutey patootie.

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Originally posted by Superstar For the last time it does not breed hatred. The other 2 points are debatable. How can you know anything about the society there if you haven't lived there (and yes I'm assuming here, but it seems pretty obvious)?

My parents met each other in war torn Afghanistan during the late 70's, while near the Pakistan border. My dad rode his bicycle across the muslim world from Turkey to Indonesia and so spent much time there, in villages, in towns, and close among the people. My parents also rode their bicyles across Saharan Africa from Morrocco, Algeria, Tunisia...all part of the Muslim World. So I do have their personal accounts, pictures, diaries, and other sorts of anecdotes to give me a good picture. By the way, it's not all negative, in fact...my parents went there for the very reason that it is an amazing place rich in history, cultural, and beauty!

I'll reiterate what I've already stated. Fundamentalist religion, or any religion (and I'm also referring to the white hooded folks here...), in other words: The absence of rational thinking, is a problem and the source of evil in the current conflict.

But lets not be blind here folks. The largest culprit, the part of the world that most greatly represents this in the world today...is Islam. Being muslim is not a necessary condition for being an irrational fundamentalist wacko (which is what you are trying to say that I am saying). However, the loudest voices are those that preach hatred and destruction. For objective evidence for this, look at the proportion of terrorism that is committed in the name of Islam.

Stick to the issue, don't bring up IRA terrorism, or Christians that kill abortion docs, or Tim McVie. The world faces a problem and it is Islamic fundamentalism. It is a real threat.

the only thing that has "bin laden" is Jo Momma.

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- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

what about the christian fundamentalists invading other countries for no reason??? ahem....BUSH....


IMO he is just as bad if not worse than any of the fundamentalist islamic groups. every time you think of accusing them of being terrorist cowards just think how long the US has been dippin its hands in the honey pot over there so to speak. invading their countries, funding one country so they can go to war with another, all over the oil. terrorism is wrong dont get me wrong there. but when you go and piss off generations of people who in some cases have next to nothing. how do you expect them to fight back?? if america really wants to destroy the terrorist threat. pull back the military out of the middle east, stop trying to assimilate all the countries into a puppet democracy, and hell maybe help them to help themselves, medical supplies, food etc, thats a gesture of good faith, re structuring their entire ruling system by invasion is just invading. thats how id see it if the us invaded canada.

i think its pretty narrow minded to say that islam has more "fundamentalist wakos" than christianity or any other religion

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

what about the christian fundamentalists invading other countries for no reason??? ahem....BUSH....


IMO he is just as bad if not worse than any of the fundamentalist islamic groups. every time you think of accusing them of being terrorist cowards just think how long the US has been dippin its hands in the honey pot over there so to speak. invading their countries, funding one country so they can go to war with another, all over the oil. terrorism is wrong dont get me wrong there. but when you go and piss off generations of people who in some cases have next to nothing. how do you expect them to fight back?? if america really wants to destroy the terrorist threat. pull back the military out of the middle east, stop trying to assimilate all the countries into a puppet democracy, and hell maybe help them to help themselves, medical supplies, food etc, thats a gesture of good faith, re structuring their entire ruling system by invasion is just invading. thats how id see it if the us invaded canada.

i think its pretty narrow minded to say that islam has more "fundamentalist wakos" than christianity or any other religion

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

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Originally posted by drewfactor But lets not be blind here folks. The largest culprit, the part of the world that most greatly represents this in the world today...is Islam. Being muslim is not a necessary condition for being an irrational fundamentalist wacko (which is what you are trying to say that I am saying). However, the loudest voices are those that preach hatred and destruction. For objective evidence for this, look at the proportion of terrorism that is committed in the name of Islam.

Have you ever thought of the state terrorist acts that are committed? You seem to equate terrorism to only that committed by the type islamic fundamentalists carry out. How about Bush's Fundementalist christian zionist perspective? The guy admits to having conversations with Jesus and God to make his decisions? Sounds earyily familiar with the worship of the same god these muslims preach when they commit their acts.

They are all the same, one has the worlds strongest military, the other uses guerilla tactics to , in the end, kill innocents for their own reasons

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

Well, I appreciate that people are up for having an mature debate/discussion instead of name calling. Especially you Cyrus King .

Reread my previous statement:

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I'll reiterate what I've already stated. Fundamentalist religion, or any religion (and I'm also referring to the white hooded folks here...), in other words: The absence of rational thinking, is a problem and the source of evil in the current conflict.

Based on that statement, it is obvious that I am not operating from a vastly different perspective than you guys.

This is the premise I am operating from. The issue I am specifically referring to is the issue of Islamic Terrorism.

What I am hearing/reading from so many people is the same old arguments based on moral reletavism. Has America operated from an gotten itself in a pickle by supporting dictators in the past? Yes! I'm not denying that. Was it wrong? Yes. However, I don't think many people understand the nature of those previous conflicts. During the cold war for example, the CIA backed mujahadeen (hence support for bin laden) in the conflict with the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan for no other reason than soviet communist expansionism. Soviet expansionism was just that, expansionism for the sake of expansionism. The sheer confiscation and collectivization of another people's land and resources. America is not currently engaged in this process (I challenge someone to point to an example of this). The US supported Saddam Hussein during the conflict with the Iranians because the secular dictator (despite being an illegitimate thug), was a force of stability and secularization, obviously to the national interest of the US.

These acts of pragmatism and political expediency were bad, and the US deserves criticism for these acts, just as any open society should be criticized. However, the point I disagree on, is the proportion of damnation directed towards America (and to the same degree, Israel) in proportion to the so called "atrocities" committed by America and Israel. Compared to a huge proportion of the world, these two countries have the cleanest human rights records, the greatest emphasis on individual rights, and are models of human progress in all realms (despite the presence of flaws). I am baffled at the notion that somehow, these two countries represent the greatest threat to peace!

It leads me to one conclusion. The truth is that the people who hold this dissproportionate level of hatred have one agenda and that is simply the irrational hatred of America, just for the sake of it. This, my friends is the real bigotry, the real threat to world peace.

I'll give two eamples of this bankrupt way of thinking. First: Comparing a suicide bomber who kills innocent, non-combatant women, children and elderly or a terrorist who hides among his own innocent population in order to maximize the deaths of innocents...and comparing that to a US soldier who risks his own life to get an enemy hiding in a civilian population and happens to kill an innocent (or perhaps he wasn't so innocent if he was complicit in allowing a terrorist to hide among him...) by accident, when all he could have done to meet his objective was to carpet bomb the whole villiage.

Two: An enterprising American businessman who establishes a company in the middle east and trades freely (non-fraudulently, and non-coercively) with the people of the country, provides jobs and all the rippling economic benefits to a region devoid of prosperity...and saying that he is "raping the land" and "stealing it from muslims" and somehow this warrants terrorism and killing.

There is no relativism here, there are moral differences.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker the only thing that has "bin laden" is Jo Momma.

Osama....yo mamma.