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tiesto14
Let The Music Play



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: The Palladium New York City

quote:
Originally posted by Cal
Hah the majority of people that voted for dubya are rednecks from jesusland, tiesto. You must have seen this before.



So how does it feel to have the same political stance as someone like this guy?


Or this guy?

You know what, maybe you three can get together for an educated conversation about US foreign policy and after the moonshine runs out you can bust out the banjoes and have a hoedown about how the south will rise again.



Patently absurd....To say everyone who voted for Bush is what you depict above...

I voted for Bush and yet i am not a follower of Jesus, Christianity or any other religion, your stereotypes are what perpetuate hate, racism, bigotry and ignorance.

Old Post Jan-13-2005 19:46  Bahamas
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Cal
So how does it feel to have the same political stance as someone like this guy?



Probably about the same as it feels for you to have to identify yourself with Jesse Jackson and Ted Kennedy.

Old Post Jan-13-2005 19:47  United States
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wolverine16
Pilgrim Pete



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago, USA

Other than the whole car accident thing, there's nothing wrong with being assocated with Ted Kennedy. He's definitely a good drinking buddy.


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Old Post Jan-13-2005 20:11  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by wolverine16
Other than the whole car accident thing, there's nothing wrong with being assocated with Ted Kennedy. He's definitely a good drinking buddy.


Hehe. I'm waiting for you to defend Jesse.

Seriously though, the point is that comments like those I responded to are simply asanine. Trying to pigeonhole people with extremists on either side is dumb, and serves no legitimate argumentative purpose except to try and rile up the other side and bait them into a flame war.

Old Post Jan-13-2005 20:33  United States
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Cal
who then now bitches



Registered: Aug 2002
Location: T.O.

quote:
Originally posted by tiesto14
Patently absurd....To say everyone who voted for Bush is what you depict above...

I voted for Bush and yet i am not a follower of Jesus, Christianity or any other religion, your stereotypes are what perpetuate hate, racism, bigotry and ignorance.




Hahaha I never said everyone who voted for Bush are like that, check my post. What you need to do is go back to school and take elementary school english so you can learn to READ.

Hah, ignorance. Ignorance is lapping up lies from your elected president, and then voting for him again!


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by dj_bas
wow awesome!! that's way bigger than mine

Old Post Jan-13-2005 20:36  Ukraine
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tiesto14
Let The Music Play



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: The Palladium New York City

quote:
Originally posted by Cal


Hahaha I never said everyone who voted for Bush are like that, check my post. What you need to do is go back to school and take elementary school english so you can learn to READ.



You implied it..and i quote u ...

"Hah the majority of people that voted for dubya are rednecks from jesusland, tiesto. You must have seen this before."

Am i missing something?




quote:
Originally posted by Cal
Hah, ignorance. Ignorance is lapping up lies from your elected president, and then voting for him again!



All politician lie...name one that doesn't...surely one you have voted for...since...you know...cus you only vote for honest politicians based on your knowledge

And was it "REALLY" a lie that Bush said Hussein had WMDs?...If Bush firmly beleived it, as Kerry did, due to all the evidence pointed at Hussein having WMDs would that really be him lieing? by definition of the word "lie"?

Old Post Jan-13-2005 20:50  Bahamas
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Cal
who then now bitches



Registered: Aug 2002
Location: T.O.

quote:
Originally posted by tiesto14
You implied it..and i quote u ...
"Hah the majority of people that voted for dubya are rednecks from jesusland, tiesto. You must have seen this before."
Am i missing something?
All politician lie...name one that doesn't...surely one you have voted for...since...you know...cus you only vote for honest politicians based on your knowledge
And was it "REALLY" a lie that Bush said Hussein had WMDs?...If Bush firmly beleived it, as Kerry did, due to all the evidence pointed at Hussein having WMDs would that really be him lieing? by definition of the word "lie"?


ROOOOOOFL
ok maybe Im being mean and english is not your first language.

Kids, today we learn the difference between MAJORITY, and EVERYONE!

MAJORITY - The greater number or part
EVERYONE - Every person; everybody.

And I guess you're right about the firm belief thing that, for example, is attributed to Dick Cheney saying
quote:
Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
- Dick Cheney, speech to VFW National Convention, Aug. 26, 2002

http://www.williambowles.info/wmd/bush_lies.html

So instead of being lying scumbags, the current administration is really just totally incompetent!

YAY!

The country with the biggest economy of the world, and the biggest military budget in the world, and the biggest network of intelligence in the world has somehow found enough evidence of non-existent weapons to have its vice president state on full authority that black is white!



You must be proud!


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by dj_bas
wow awesome!! that's way bigger than mine

Old Post Jan-13-2005 21:12  Ukraine
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jeronemango
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Brisbane

"And was it "REALLY" a lie that Bush said Hussein had WMDs?...If Bush firmly beleived it, as Kerry did, due to all the evidence pointed at Hussein having WMDs would that really be him lieing? by definition of the word "lie"?"

you have just proved how blind you really are..

read these comments made by your great leader and tell me, if there is smoke then where is the fire ?? they just went away into thin air ??


"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have." Radio Address
October 5, 2002

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."

"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."

Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
October 7, 2002

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003



The war in Iraq is, apparently, over. In yet another media stunt, Bush hitched a ride on a military jet to proclaim this "fact" from a US carrier. He praised the bravery of the troops he, from the safety of the White House, sent to kill or be killed.

Needless to say, few newspapers reported the obvious irony that this was a man whose connections allowed him to join the Texas Air National Guard in order escape serving his country in Vietnam. Or that it was like saluting the bravery of a bodybuilder who had just pummelled a handicapped person to a bloody pulp.

Yet Bush's photo opportunity serves more than to remind us how obnoxious politicians or that the US elections are approaching (Bush wants to be elected to the office he stole in the 2000 elections). It can be considered a fitting end for a stage-managed war, thrust upon an unwilling world by systematic state lying and media collusion.

The minimum number of Iraqi civilian deaths has now exceeded the maximum number of civilian deaths from September 11th. Let us never forget that America's generals publicly stated that there would be no attempt to count the bodies of the dead left in their troops wake. This exposed the "humanitarian" nature of the war: an Iraqi's life was only of value if Saddam was extinguishing it, otherwise it (literally and figuratively) did not count.

For all the crowing in the pro-war camp, the fact is that this invasion has vindicated the anti-war case. It's easy to see why. The pro-war arguments have been exposed as the lies they obviously were. Rather than a "new Hitler" poised to take over the world, Saddam has been exposed as an evil dictator ruling over a devastated nation by means of a clapped out military machine. And he was picked by the US because they knew it.

Now you seem them...

Let us remember the "official" case for the war, namely Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). The stated rationale for the US invasion was that Iraq was a threat to the US, if not the world. We were asked to believe that after a devastating war and a decade of sanctions, US bombing runs, and UN inspections, Iraq still possessed a viable nuclear, chemical or biological threat.

And let us not forget how formidable this threat was. Bush talked about "25,000 litres of anthrax. 38,000 litres of botulinum toxin. 500 tons of sarin, mustard [gas] and VX nerve agent. Several mobile biological weapons labs. An advanced nuclear weapons development program." In October 2002, he said, "We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas. And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons." Moreover, Saddam had the means of deploying them, including missiles and tens of thousands of warheads. In March, Vice President Cheney asserted that Saddam "has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." Colin Powell claimed at the UN to possess clear evidence that huge stocks of everything from sarin gas to anthrax to sanction-violating missiles were stored in Iraq, ready for use. Blair and his cronies faithfully echoed these claims of the Bush Junta.

... and now you don't

Yet where are these massive stores of weapons now? No weapons have been found. None. Colin Powell said to the United Nations Security Council that "every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence." How could these "facts" have proved so elusive to prove now that the US has complete control over Iraq?

Apparently the Iraqis were able to hide or smuggle it all out despite almost constant tactical surveillance and nearly constant satellite and aircraft recognisance. And is there any evidence at all this stuff has been secreted out or hidden? None. It's unfounded speculation based on the lack of evidence. In this, though, Bush and Blair are consistent. As before the war, if no evidence exists then the evidence must have been cleverly hidden or destroyed! Rest assured, David Blunkett will shortly revise the UK courts to operate on these "moral" principles of "guilty until proven innocent" and "no evidence equates to guilt."

None of the "facilities" claimed to exist by the Bush Junta have been found. Can we be surprised? There was no way for Iraq to replace chemical and biological weapons once they did degrade. Chemical weapons require vast industrial infrastructure to make, and another industrial infrastructure to build the means to deliver the chemical agents. Iraq had neither. As was pointed out before the war, even if Hussein had somehow secretly imported the materials necessary to rebuild his WMD within the past five years, even as UN sanctions, no-fly zones and vigorous spying by Western forces remained firmly in place, Iraq could not hide the gases, heat, and gamma radiation which centrifuge facilities emit - and which the intelligence capacities would have identified by now. Plants that make VX, for instance, cannot be hidden, they discharge residual elements into the atmosphere that would have been immediately detectable by the UN teams, or by foreign intelligence establishments watching Iraq like falcons waiting to pounce but their combined resources produced not one piece of evidence.

The argument for Iraq as a nuclear threat was built on even shakier ground. As the US Congress was preparing to vote on authorising the use of force against Iraq, Blair publicly released an apparent bombshell: British intelligence had obtained documents showing that between 1999 and 2001, Iraq had attempted to buy "significant quantities of uranium" from an unnamed African country "despite having no active civil nuclear power programme that could require it." This evidence was important in getting Congress to back the war resolution. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was to verify the authenticity of these important documents for the UN Security Council, but only obtained them from the U.S. government after months of pleading. A strange delay, considering the Bush White House was so eager to prove Saddam's nuclear intentions to a sceptical world. But an unsurprising one, for the IAEA told the UN Security Council that the documents were clearly and obviously fakes. MI6 was regarded by many as the perpetrators. This is the very same agency which Blair asserted would never plant WMD in "liberated" Iraq in order to provide evidence justifying war.

Likewise, the same Iraqi defector who told Powell about the stores of chemical and biological weapons also said they had been completely destroyed. Powell neglected to inform the UN of this.


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Old Post Jan-13-2005 21:18  Australia
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razmataz
todo pero la muchacha



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: in the clouds from my cigarette

quote:
Originally posted by tiesto14
The funny thing about your ignorance is that the majority of Bush supporters are the top 1% of America...people that graduated Yale, Harvard, MIT, USC, UCLA etc etc...most of the CEOs, CFOs and board room members of the worlds biggest corporations, people that attend country clubs, and wine and dine in places you will never be able to valet park a car...yet you go on and on about how they can not speak right or are uneducated...tsk tsk..jealousy of the upper class just makes you look foolish and a tad bitter.


Compliments of The Economist



Anyways, is it really a surprise that they didn't find any WMDs in Iraq?

I think deep down even the most gullible republicans had their doubts, as much as they prayed it to be true.

It still amazes me how people people fail to realize that with the "liberation" of Iraq and Afghanistan, America has by a miracle of coincidence gained full access to tremendous oil/natural gas reserves through Iraq and the Caspian Sea.

Not only that, but the extent of influence they can muster in the Middle East is now magnified seeing how they have literally surrounded Iran and Syria (with Israel on the other side). I wouldn't be surprised if the Syrian and Iranian military are contributing to the madness in Iraq. If I were a major politican in either of those countries I would inflict as much damage on the American presence in Iraq so to delay any "liberalization" of my own country. I think they've done better than just delay any further action seeing the sky-rocketing costs of the current mission.

It's going to be decades before a Republican American government will be audacious enough to con another generation of impressionable young voters with vague memories of this war.

Old Post Jan-13-2005 21:37 
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by razmataz
Compliments of The Economist





Or not. Surely you're not gullible enough to think that.

Old Post Jan-13-2005 21:40  United States
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razmataz
todo pero la muchacha



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: in the clouds from my cigarette

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Or not. Surely you're not gullible enough to think that.


I normally resist the temptation to post anything remotedly sensationalist but tiesto14's comments reeked of desperation.

The Economist did in fact post those stats but it was retracted, because it had apparantly not YET met The Economists' "rigorous standards" and independent verifications. They never did say what became of those rigorous tests.

Old Post Jan-13-2005 21:50 
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tiesto14
Let The Music Play



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: The Palladium New York City

quote:
Originally posted by Cal
ROOOOOOFL
ok maybe Im being mean and english is not your first language.

Kids, today we learn the difference between MAJORITY, and EVERYONE!

MAJORITY - The greater number or part
EVERYONE - Every person; everybody.



You really are a rude individual, aren't you? I know the difference between the two words. Maybe English is not my first language and maybe it is - what's the difference? Does that give you any reason to question my intelligence?


ok i will rephrase my responce to you...to please you.

Patently absurd....To say THE MAJORITY who voted for Bush is what you depict above...

THIS STILL STANDS
I voted for Bush and yet i am not a follower of Jesus, Christianity or any other religion, your stereotypes are what perpetuate hate, racism, bigotry and ignorance.

And how can you possibly question my intelligence when you still use teenage AOL lingo "ROFL"...and you call me a kid? laughable.




quote:
Originally posted by Cal
And I guess you're right about the firm belief thing that, for example, is attributed to Dick Cheney saying

http://www.williambowles.info/wmd/bush_lies.html

So instead of being lying scumbags, the current administration is really just totally incompetent!



Cheney is not Bush..and i can give you many quotes from your favored Joh Kerry saying the exact same thing as CHeney...if you so desire.


quote:
Originally posted by Cal

The country with the biggest economy of the world, and the biggest military budget in the world, and the biggest network of intelligence in the world has somehow found enough evidence of non-existent weapons to have its vice president state on full authority that black is white!



You must be proud!



No i am not proud that a mistake was made...and never have I said so...however i am proud of my country in many aspects but that is not the topic at hand.

This will be the last time i respond to you...simply because you are very rude, childish and antagonizing.

Old Post Jan-13-2005 22:22  Bahamas
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