It kicks ass.



Damn you and your genres, Cobalt!

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Originally posted by Tegu progressive refers to progressive HOUSE, not progressive TRANCE. progressive is an effort to make house less monotonous and one step closer to trance as we know it.

i'm pretty sure that the name "progressive" used on its own refers to prog house, prog trance, prog breaks and all the (very) gray area between these 3 subgenres. these are all subjective labels though, and everyone (every genre freak) has their own detailed perception of what these names mean.

as for mcprog, it's pretty much on the gray area, maybe probably a bit more directed towards trance but it clearly takes house elements

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Originally posted by A.J. It kicks ass.

Oh that I'm not debating at all.

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Originally posted by paranoik0 i'm pretty sure that the name "progressive" used on its own refers to prog house, prog trance, prog breaks and all the (very) gray area between these 3 subgenres. these are all subjective labels though, and everyone (every genre freak) has their own detailed perception of what these names mean. as for mcprog, it's pretty much on the gray area, maybe probably a bit more directed towards trance but it clearly takes house elements

A correct and appropriate analysis.

Progressive has always been an amorphous blob that moved off in a collective direction but never quite settled on a simple definition.

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Originally posted by Cobalt I've made an attempt to advance the alternate label "American Progressive," deeming McProg too colloquial for official use. But you own all rights and reserves to the brilliant McProg label, unconditionally.

Interesting...But isn't "American Progressive" too broad for a subgenre label? I'm worried that the more traditional prog djs from America could be confused into the junk food category.

Would "American Progressive" include the likes of Christopher Lawrence, Sandra Collins, Yoshitoshi artists such as Deep Dish, Saeed and Palash, some Danny T. or maybe even someone like Sean Cusick just because they are "American" and "Progressive" in one way or the other?

And although the vast majority of McProg is most definitely American, it isn't strictly so. Armin himself is one of the principal trendsetters that started off this craze, second only to Markus Schulz.

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Progressive has always been an amorphous blob that moved off in a collective direction but never quite settled on a simple definition.

If this were true, which I believe to be...

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i'm pretty sure that the name "progressive" used on its own refers to prog house, prog trance, prog breaks and all the (very) gray area between these 3 subgenres. these are all subjective labels though, and everyone (every genre freak) has their own detailed perception of what these names mean. as for mcprog, it's pretty much on the gray area, maybe probably a bit more directed towards trance but it clearly takes house elements

Then this is false. Progressive is not a general term, it is an abused word mistakenly fuse trance and bad house together. And this is where the McProg issue comes in. McProg is what is to 'progressive' as McTrance is to, well...trance.
The problem(and yes, it is a problem which I will explain in a second) with McProg is it dilutes the progressive house and progressive trance pool with extremely boring and simple productions that have 'desktop trance' elements thrown all over the place. An example would be Roland Klinkenberg - Monday Groove. Both structure and genre wise, this track is easily labeled progressive because of it's production technicals(very moving track...never stops) and it's fresh sound. The Perry O'Neil remix of this takes all that away, and jams in a recycled synth that we can all characterize Perry O'Neil's productions by, and simplifies the track to make his synth the main part, reducing the track to nothing but a standard trance track with progressive charades and one big build and break. Probspot songs and remixes also have this characteristic, as they color the song vividly with their sound, yet do nothing with the track itself as far as production goes. This is why Sasha is revered and respected everywhere: the quality of his remixes don't stop at the intricacies of his sounds and technicalities, but the composition of his productions and remixes are what each and every Sasha track 'progressive' to the truest sense, both symbolically and technically.
That's not to say that these are not good productions, however. I enjoy listening to the new trance sound that has been pouring out since last year, when Markus Schulz broke through and became popular. Heck, sometimes I throw them into my sets! Perry O Neil, I'll admit, does a good job of creating a different feel and mood with his remixes, which in essence would the core of progressive genres: the mood and atmosphere generated by the sum of all the parts in a great progressive house or trance track(ex. Habersham - Transparent Sound...very simple sounding, yet each part of the track does more than just exist.). But to say that these McProg tracks are considered progressive house or trance can't be justified simply because they don't have a banging lead, huge supersaw break and build, and 138+BPM tempo. They are just as trancey and epic in their own sense as these ASOT Anjuna whatever trance tracks people find entertaining to bash.
Going back to your main point, McProg can be thought of as a quick fix collaboration of progressive house and progressive trance with epic trance elements spilled all over it. So I don't consider it to be part of any progressive genre, if you were to take your definition Progressive as that gray area. Progressive breaks I'd say are true off shoots of the progressive blob that you and Cobalt seem to be right on.

It's annoying when people judge productions as a group (all of one artists work) rather than individually.

Then again, some artists never change their sound {insert your favorite cliche target here}

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Originally posted by A.J. I would class some of the stuff John "00" Fleming plays as closer to the progressive trance that I enjoy, but that's just me. Like i have said before, i do not enjoy the "American Progressive" sound much, apart from a few select tracks, but I think J00F plays some awesome proggy trance. Just my opinion and my taste....

then i think you would do well to check my set on Amateurs Djs forum

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Originally posted by Pio Interesting...But isn't "American Progressive" too broad for a subgenre label? I'm worried that the more traditional prog djs from America could be confused into the junk food category. Would "American Progressive" include the likes of Christopher Lawrence, Sandra Collins, Yoshitoshi artists such as Deep Dish, Saeed and Palash, some Danny T. or maybe even someone like Sean Cusick just because they are "American" and "Progressive" in one way or the other?

This was the main flaw in the name. But I think it's passable because there's nothing particularly regional about progressive producers in America. They more or less share a global progressive sound with similar producers around the world. McProg, however, is highly American in origin.

I also proposed the alternate of "Miami Prog", but I didn't like it as much because American Prog actually started in San Francisco, and isn't limited to Miami either. Which brings me to...

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And although the vast majority of McProg is most definitely American, it isn't strictly so. Armin himself is one of the principal trendsetters that started off this craze, second only to Markus Schulz.

Armin didn't hop on until the movement was well under way. Gabriel & Dresden got the ball rolling with their remix of Mindcircus in 2002, and Schulz took it to new heights in transplanting it to Miami nightclubs (and airwaves). Only during the Gabriel & Dresden remixing blitz of 2003 did Armin begin to incorporate the "GDJB" sound into ASOT.

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Originally posted by dJohn Then this is false. Progressive is not a general term, it is an abused word mistakenly fuse trance and bad house together. ... Progressive breaks I'd say are true off shoots of the progressive blob that you and Cobalt seem to be right on.

Progressive house and progressive trance became hopelessly entangled by the end of 2001 (or, depending on your perspective, progressive trance died). The introduction of breaks made the situation even more unmanageable to classify. I gave up trying to subcategorize progressive over two years ago. It's really rather pointless to call the genre anything but "progressive" after 2002, because no meaningful lines can be drawn after that point. If you really wanted to be particular, or loath an adjective for a genre name, you could probably call it "progressive house" despite the breaks. But any way you cut it, McProg emerged from progressive aka progressive house. Not from progressive trance, which lost its way around the end of 2001, or was dragged to the dark depths by Sasha and Diggers before American Progressive emerged.

I wondn't consider my show McProg, but whatever you say Ian...thanks for the support

-I do realize I play some "McProg" now and then but the tracks I play are the tracks I enjoy so if you dont like it dont listen -

Shawn Mitiska / DJ Mitiska

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