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Originally posted by Kytracid This has nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with ignornant, backward thinking village idiots who disregard state and fedral laws. This kinda thing would only happen in a bumfuck village.

This does have to do with culture, unfortunately, the type that has been passed on for generations in these remote villages...

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from starsearcher's articles: The village is in Uttar Pradesh, one of India's poorest and most backward states and its most populous, with more than 165 million people, more than Russia's 145 million ... Gang rapes and honour killings are common in feudal-dominated rural Pakistan, where brutal tribal customs sometimes hold sway.

These types of inhumane acts ONLY occur in these areas where even the so-called clerics are so far from the truth of Islam that it's really heartbreaking to see the media call them Muslims.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf After all, this garbage takes place in CANADA too, and everywhere that Islamic law is applied.

How does any of this occur in Canada? You failed to demonstrate that. Islamic law is not applied here.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Today, thanks in large part to a massive flow of immigration from Muslim countries, sharia law and medieval customs are becoming increasingly common in the heart of Christian Europe. One of the most shocking examples of this new reality occurred in Sweden last year, when a Kurdish woman was killed by her father for having a romantic relationship with a Swedish man. Fadime Sahindal, 26, had taken her father and brother to sharia court in 1998, alleging that they had threatened to kill her for refusing to marry a Kurdish man the family had chosen for her. The two received only light sentences, however, and continued to abuse Fadime until, in 2002, her father shot and killed her. Disturbingly, the young woman was well aware of the fate that awaited her, as she said during the 1998 trial: "The only way for the family to regain its honor now that I have spread dishonor over it is to kill me."

There is no sharia court in Sweden, not sure where this personal editorial got its facts.

In an Islamic perspective, the difference between the "clerics" in the tribal village and the father/brothers/partners carrying out these atrocities in the western world is that the clerics believe they are following sharia law but the latter are carrying out honour killings, as no recognized Islamic scholar was consulted nor was a high Sharia court involved (located in the civilized sections of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt, Malaysia, and other Islamic countries).

Also, "sharia law" and "medieval customs" are two different things. The punishment prescribed in the Quran (e.g. "eye-for-an-eye" or lashings for various offences) can definitely be seen as medieval, but the fairness and justice in Islamic law has nothing to do with the brute, feudal, ANIMALISTIC behaviour described above. In the proper application of Islamic law, firstly there must be a witness in the sexual act (e.g. when men/women have pre/extra-marital relationships). No witness, no case. If there is a witness, BOTH man AND woman get the same punishment. Again, it's only in these obscure tribal scenarios that men would dominate and completely subordinate women. Not at all indicative of the true nature of Islam.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Cases similar to Fadime's have been reported in France and Denmark. In England last September, a Kurdish father slit his daughter's throat because he disapproved of her Christian boyfriend and Westernized way of life. And, recently, in the port town of Taranto in southern Italy, a Muslim man who suspected that his wife had committed adultery decided — after consulting with members of his local Muslim community — that she should be stoned to death. The tragedy was only averted thanks to the intervention of local police.

All the examples above demonstrate a "father" or a "man" consulting his Muslim buddies and then carrying out some despicable act. Again, NOTHING to do with Sharia/Islamic law!!!! No rules are being followed here except for the hate and jealousy and pride of the ignorant man involved.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Nevertheless, the Koran itself permits men to beat their wives (Chapter 4, Verse 34), and the sharia-inspired penal codes of most Muslim countries give the benefit of the doubt to a man who kills his wife, daughter, or sister for engaging in adulterous or immoral behavior. … "A religious Muslim is also at the same time an advocate for sharia. The state, the media, and the courts have no rights to interfere. The allegiance of a Muslim to sharia cannot be condemned or questioned."

The reference to the Quran is completely taken out of context and is the wrong translation. If you would like to discuss this then do your own research instead of pawning off some blog news site and we can discuss it. According to the Quran, (and through actions of the prophet Muhammad) Muslims are supposed respect and obey the rules of the government in which they live, and follow those laws, not create their own.

The proponents of sharia law in the western world are only looking for its application in matters regarding marriage, inheritance, divorce, etc. For example, which relatives have priority over the claims to someone's inheritance in the event that there is no will. There are specific rules for minute details like that in Islam so people would rather not clog the western courts that have more important cases to handle. Any OTHER situation that involved MURDER or RAPE would go directly through the existing government’s legal system! No debate there! Unfortunately people exaggerate the application (and intention) of the proponents and you get biased and emotional outbursts (like some of the posts in this thread).

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Actually this "law" is derived from the corhan and the old testement. I cannot tell you what it says in corhan exactly but the old testiment does state that if a woman is raped her rapist must marry her in order to right the wrong and absolve the sin of both.

Sorry, Moral, but this is totally wrong. None of the three monotheistic religions would support this idea; I don’t want to get into a debate about the authenticity of the version of the Bible that you are referring to but it doesn’t make common sense, let alone divine sense. This way any man could marry any woman without her will, through violence. Can you imagine a society where this was law? Those three religions which respect the role of women and the idea of consent could never allow this to happen, and furthermore, in Islam, there is the punishment of death by stoning for a rapist/adulterer (wouldn’t make sense for him to get married to her, now would it? ) Fornicators just get a nice whipping--but then some fornicators like that sort of thing

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Originally posted by bass drive If I remember correctly, in Islamic law if someone cheats on his wife or vice versa, the punishment is death to the cheater? (can anyone confirm? )

Confirmed.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf The crime might be easier to digest if it had been an archaic anomaly, but five other Muslim women have been murdered in Berlin during the past four months by their husbands or partners for besmirching the family's Muslim honor. Two of them were stabbed to death in front of their young children, one was shot, one strangled and a fifth drowned. It seems hard to fathom, but in the middle of democratic Western Europe -- in Germany, a nation where pacifism is almost a universal mantra -- murderous macho patriotism not only exists but also appears to be thriving. It may even be Germany's liberalism -- and its post World War II fear of criticizing minority cultures -- that has encouraged ultra-religious families to settle here.

Another demonstration that it's husbands/partners that are doing this for HONOUR..."murderous macho patriotism" is the perfect way to describe it, not "sharia law". Again, one has nothing to do with the other.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Last year, a virtual tectonic shift occurred when Germany -- long considered a Mecca of religious tolerance by Muslims -- took its first step toward enforced secularism. Five of the nation's 16 states voted to ban teachers and other public officials from wearing headscarves to work. In October, after much lobbying, Turkish women's groups scored a coup when the government passed a law making it illegal for parents to force their children to marry. Turkey, a secular Muslim state, has long had such a law.

Believe it or not, it is illegal in Islam to force someone to marry against his/her will. This law is actually an example of sharia being practiced!!!

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Ali Kizilkaya, the chairman of the Council of Islam, one of the largest umbrella organizations, has decried Hatin's murder as "an abuse and affront to the Muslim religion." He insists Islam does not condone honor killings.

Wow...a quote from someone who actually speaks the truth...very shocked to find it in your post!

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Originally posted by starsearcher Yahoo! News collects news headliens from various sources primarily Reuters, Associated Pess, and etc...so if it's there it's definitely reliable...

Just because Yahoo collects news from Reuters and AP it doesn’t mean all of its news is “definitely” reliable. Come on! I’d rather give it a “possibly”.

Last edited by on Jun-15-2005 at 23:07

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar not ever being able to masterbate would suck tho.

It sucks more for the victims.

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Cyrus King When i heard that sharia law might be accepted into the ontario courts to decide marraige rights.. i wanted punch a face. I hate this religious bullshit!!! Espescially islamic barbaric law

Having just read that in this thread, it upsets me. Why in the fuck would we allow such barbarism into our society? FUCK THAT.

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 Having just read that in this thread, it upsets me. Why in the fuck would we allow such barbarism into our society? FUCK THAT.

I never know whether you're being sarcastic or not!!! If not, what aspect about Islamic law regarding marriage is barbaric? I can understand Islamic punishment being seen that way, but the little things that compose civil law (not criminal law) have NO barbarism involved!

P.S. Just to make it clear (I see everyone uses disclaimers these days) I'm not a proponent of applying sharia in our wonderful nation, although I think that if there was any nation where such a mixed system would succeed it would be in our peace loving Canada, where there would be strict controls on any corruption or abuse (which unfortunately occurs in ALL the Muslim countries). I'm proud to live in and be born in this awesome country so I love its laws and don't need anything else for me or my hopefully future generations of family to live happily, but this doesn't mean I would shut myself down to understanding any logic that might exist in this sharia issue...which is why I try to explain the other perspective; something easier for me because I have lived in those countries and experienced that way of life.

Last edited by on Jun-16-2005 at 00:48

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Originally posted by EvilTree It sucks more for the victims.

i know

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Originally posted by fayraree I never know whether you're being sarcastic or not!!! If not, what aspect about Islamic law regarding marriage is barbaric? I can understand Islamic punishment being seen that way, but the little things that compose civil law (not criminal law) have NO barbarism involved! P.S. Just to make it clear (I see everyone uses disclaimers these days) I'm not a proponent of applying sharia in our wonderful nation, although I think that if there was any nation where such a mixed system would succeed it would be in our peace loving Canada, where there would be strict controls on any corruption or abuse (which unfortunately occurs in ALL the Muslim countries). I'm proud to live in and be born in this awesome country so I love its laws and don't need anything else for me or my hopefully future generations of family to live happily, but this doesn't mean I would shut myself down to understanding any logic that might exist in this sharia issue...which is why I try to explain the other perspective; something easier for me because I have lived in those countries and experienced that way of life.

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Sensationalism shrouds the debate on sharia Haroon Siddiqui says hysteria shows lack of faith in Canada HAROON SIDDIQUI More than stopping sharia, we need to stop the hysteria surrounding it. So misleading and dishonest has the debate been that it reveals more about our political and media prejudices than the minority in question. A request by a small Ontario Muslim group to start faith-based family mediation or arbitration between two consenting adults — a practice long used by Christians (Mennonites and Catholics in particular), Jews (especially the Orthodox) and one sect of Muslims, the Ismailis — has been blown up into the spectre of Taliban-like justice coming to Canada. No sharia is coming. No sharia can come. If anyone implemented any unlawful practice, he or she will go to jail. Those saying otherwise are either ignorant or malevolent. They are also showing little or no faith in Canada, believing, as they must, that our system of justice and law enforcement will only be a silent spectator to the hijacking of our rule of law. The latest to jump on the bandwagon is the Quebec National Assembly, unanimously passing a resolution against the phantom enemy. Quebec city has not been asked to authorize any Islamic justice, only the right to grant religious divorce to Muslim women believers who want it, just like Jewish women asking for the get, the religious divorce, or Catholics seeking annulment. But that stirred the Jean Charest government and the opposition Parti Québécois into mounting their soapboxes. Leading the chorus was Liberal backbencher Fatima Houda-Pepin, the lone Muslim MNA. She is entitled to her views, of course. But her Muslim background is not irrelevant. She has used it to play the ethnic broker, and is found useful precisely because of it. But she's reportedly not a practising Muslim, which is her right. Also, she does not represent Muslims. In fact, she is reviled by many of them. She also uses scare tactics, invoking Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, Sudan, Iran and Saudi Arabia. What do those backwaters have to do with Canada? We live here, not there. She peddles a conspiracy theory as well, namely, that Islamists have a plot to control Canadian Muslims and use the Charter of Rights to sabotage it. In reality, what they have done is to advocate their point of view, something she is intolerant of. She likes those Muslims who agree with her, such as the Canadian Council of Muslim Women and Muslim Canadian Congress. They, too, are entitled to their views. But the former has a reported membership of 1,000 and the latter fewer, out of 650,000 Canadian Muslims. Yet the media, too, keep quoting them, out of laziness or because they like what they hear. The irony is that only a tiny minority of Muslims may make use of faith-based mediation or arbitration. But the majority are fully tuned to the larger issue: Are Muslims going to be denied rights available to others? There is no proof that Canadian Muslim women are any more subject to denial of their rights because of immigrant status, social pressures or lack of English or French than other women seeking faith-based arbitration. Houda-Pepin's role is akin to having a secular dissident Catholic or Orthodox Jew ordering others how to practise their faith. And being rewarded for it by being asked to lead a provincial assembly in denying them fundamental rights. Such is the anti-Muslim tenor of the post-9/11 times, especially in Quebec. The Quebec human rights commission remains silent on whether or not Muslim girls can wear a hijab in private schools. McGill University has just locked out Muslim students from the room they've been using for their five daily prayers. The eviction is being justified in the name of secularism, even as 20 universities across Canada continue to accommodate Muslims, often in multi-faith spaces. The issue of sharia, among others, is not about Muslims alone. It is a test case of whether the Dalton McGuinty government, and others, will pander to prejudices or stand up for the basic principles of our democracy.

Source (link)

Fahad, I applaud you taking the time to perhaps show people that cutting through the BS the media likes to shovel into our toughs is not always what it's made out to be...

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Last edited by amb_ on Jun-16-2005 at 01:27